Is EX/Savage content a battle or a dance number?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xerek

I welcome opinions, it's the aggressive backlash of some I find disappointing.

---

I can't say I read every post extremely closely, but I don't remember seeing anything aggressive?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xerek

And again, if my problem is with the mechanics dance, how would a role-change help?

---

And, again, I already said why. Because you haven't tried it yet? You have yet to explore all avenues and that leaves possibilities open that you may not realize. Despite how you feel this moment all of us change our minds sometimes when viewing something from a new perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xerek

What role I am won't change that.

---

Since you haven't attempted it I personally feel you are giving up without even trying all options, but if that is what you believe then you do you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilseph

The EX version required tank swaps tho. :O

---

A PLD using Cover would eat the debuff so you never really needed to swap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miste

And, again, I already said why. Because you haven't tried it yet? You have yet to explore all avenues and that leaves possibilities open that you may not realize. Despite how you feel this moment all of us change our minds sometimes when viewing something from a new perspective.

---

To use a food analogy (because who doesn't like a food analogy right?) to explain what I think the OP is getting at, and why he is disagreeing with you....

Let's say you love steak, but where you ordered it the steak is always served with peas and carrots and you *hate* peas and carrots so you decide not to get your meal there anymore. Then someone comes and says "why don't you try chicken or fish with the peas and carrots then."

Now maybe you are right that the combo of chicken, peas and carrots would be amazing.... but I think it is probably pretty normal for someone to feel that changing up the meat dish is not going to make the veggie dish any more appealing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

To use a food analogy (because who doesn't like a food analogy right?) to explain what I think the OP is getting at, and why he is disagreeing with you....

Let's say you love steak, but where you ordered it the steak is always served with peas and carrots and you *hate* peas and carrots so you decide not to get your meal there anymore. Then someone comes and says "why don't you try chicken or fish with the peas and carrots then."

Now maybe you are right that the combo of chicken, peas and carrots would be amazing.... but I think it is probably pretty normal for someone to feel that changing up the meat dish is not going to make the veggie dish any more appealing.

---

Beautiful. Perfect analogy. My problem is that the plate is swimming in peas and carrots, and I'm not allowed to eat my steak without finishing all the peas and carrots. I don't mind a few peas and carrots, but this...? Swapping out the meat isn't going to change my veggie issues. ;-)

I know people already said it but majority of all savage tiers start with an easy 1 and 2 which are dances but becomes savage at 3 and 4

O1s and O2s are completely identical to their normal counterparts I've spent such a small time learning the fight I don't even know the difference in either fight for both where is 3 and 4 have complete noticeable changes

But then again in my opinion savage hasn't been savage since A4s-8s....Gordias was just stupid on the devs part and A3s was almost impossible for most people and A4s had a mechanic that relied on server lag lol, creator just wasn't hard for people they flew through it quick and well this tier isnt hard either I pugged my way to a clear for 1-3s in the first week and 4s on my fourth becuase people suck lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xerek

Beautiful. Perfect analogy. My problem is that the plate is swimming in peas and carrots, and I'm not allowed to eat my steak without finishing all the peas and carrots. I don't mind a few peas and carrots, but this...? Swapping out the meat isn't going to change my veggie issues. ;-)

---

I sympathize completely as I feel the same way. I love healing and have raided at a high level in every MMO I have played prior to FFXIV, but that experience just does not translate to this game at all. High damage, spiky damage, random damage, things that hurt like hell if you mess up but are survivable if your healers are on point.... THAT is my wheelhouse. This games choreography though just doesn't do it for me. I don't think it is bad or wrong design, nor am I (or would I) advocate it be changed as there are lots of people who DO like it.... but it is just not my cup of tea. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

Let's say you love steak, but where you ordered it the steak is always served with peas and carrots and you *hate* peas and carrots so you decide not to get your meal there anymore. Then someone comes and says "why don't you try chicken or fish with the peas and carrots then.".

---

Nah, it is more like he doesn't want to try the steak with the peas and carrots cooked a different way to see if he would like it. For example I hate cauliflower if you cook it but I love it uncooked.

A different role in a fight doesn't change what veggies are there, but it does alter your experience since each role has some difference in what mechanics they are required to know and required to react to so therefore the veggies may be prepared in a way he would actually like it. Don't know if you like something until you try it. Don't like carrots steamed? Maybe you would like them glazed?

If mechanics are the root of his issue then the plain fact is that DPS and tank roles both have different kinds of mechanics that are relevant to those roles and without him trying it out he is leaving out the possibility of finding out a new perspective that he may find out he likes.

Like I said though, if he wants to give up then it's whatever. I only made suggestions in order to help. He obviously would rather not try it, so that's that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miste

If mechanics are the root of his issue then the plain fact is that DPS and tank roles both have different kinds of mechanics that are relevant to those roles and without him trying it out he is leaving out the possibility of finding out a new perspective that he may find out he likes.

---

Some differences for sure... but whether I am a Scholar or a Bard won't change "Boss does lookaway mechanic every 60 seconds." or "Boss does a targeted aoe mechanic every 90 seconds." or "Must clump up every 120 seconds." etc. If the difficulty is designed entirely (or mostly) around memorization of when to turn, when to stack, when to spread, when to whatever...that is not for me. Any/All games have it to an extent (and is, or should be, completely expected), but for me it is too much in this game. If they were less frequent and difficulty came not from memorization but rather from adaptation and straight raw healing then that would be more appealing for me.

Again current design is not bad or wrong, just not something I enjoy and not something I am likely to enjoy. There are many things in this game that I love though, so I just focus on the different things I love here, and scratch my raiding itch in WoW :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xerek

In other words, I think mechanics play far too much of a part in Savage.

---

At the end of the day, it isn't really just about mechanics. Savage has very strict enrage timers (when your ilvl is around the minimum to enter, this gets offset as your gear level rises), which means tanks mitigation and DPS must be on point, healers healing and DPS must be on point, DPS must have their rotations nailed down to a tee. Everyone must use their support skills perfectly. If any one of those things fail, it doesn't matter how well you perform the dance, you're hitting enrage. Even Extreme primals have an (albeit more forgiving) enrage timer. I know, I've lost track of how many times I hit Lakshmi Ex enrage timer (in fact, in my first attempt ever we hit enrage). Now, some fights use soft enrage timers, some use hard enrage timers. But, savage is meant to be "The boss will see you dead at any and all costs and will stop at nothing", and hence the harsh mechanics, harsh enrage timers, etc, make perfect sense.

It's alright that Savage/Ex isn't for you, it isn't trying to appeal to everyone. But, the current design works for how Savage/Ex are marketed. I'd say it's the best one for the job. I'm open to other options, but I think this one nails the difficulty perfectly. I haven't done Ultimate Savage, but I hear all mechanics there are an RNG-fest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

Again current design is not bad or wrong, just not something I enjoy and not something I am likely to enjoy. There are many things in this game that I love though, so I just focus on the different things I love here, and scratch my raiding itch in WoW :)

---

That's not a problem. If the WoW raiding scene suits you better, then that's fine. Must admit, I don't wanna go back to WoW, and haven't had chance to get into raiding here. I find Ex primals just perfect for me. I don't know why I like them but not Savage (especially since ShinEx is between O2S and O3S in terms of difficulty), but for some reason the Ex primals feel more exhilarating to me, whether I'm a tank or a healer (I do not like being a DPS at endgame, except for the dungeons, I feel more honed and refined with tanks/healers). So it's different strokes for different folks. Probably some weird psychological play going on here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

Again current design is not bad or wrong, just not something I enjoy and not something I am likely to enjoy.

---

That's totally fine. I am not trying to argue you into doing the content if you don't like it. I am simply encouraging and suggesting that people try foods cooked in a lot of different ways before giving up on said food. If I had based my opinion of cauliflower on the one time my mother served it to me cooked and refused to try it any other way I would have never found out how much I love it uncooked.