Dark Knight Tank Stance Change +3.x Reprisal and 3.x Dark Dance

Da with a 15sec CD would require an entire rework of the job. I mean, where would you spend your mana?

I'm not wedded to a 15 sec cooldown but rather to the concept. It could be 10 secs or something else.

Clearly working on DA in any form would be touching the fundamentals of the job. I agree MP costs would need to change. Potencies too possibly.

However, I don't think it would be a overly difficult thing to do as you're not really adding anything new. DA is likely to need at least a 2x increase, maybe more to account for the free Da on ogcds. You might also want to increase the base mp cost of Abyssal drain and Dark passenger.

Another MP spender could be added too. Maybe add MP to dark mind.

You'd just be turning DRK into a warrior with 11 abilities locked behind stances meaning you never use half of them.

Don't like it, if anything they should just be usable no matter the stance. That would be a huge buff.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

You'd just be turning DRK into a warrior with 11 abilities locked behind stances meaning you never use half of them.

Don't like it, if anything they should just be usable no matter the stance. That would be a huge buff.

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What is this replying to?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I wasn't talking about the overall effect of Blood Weapon, but the assumed increased potency. Increase speed by 10% is, in reality, reducing the delay by 10%, so you increase the DPS by 1/(1-10%).
But at 10% speed, the potency is 111 instead of 110.

If we were at 20% increase in speed, we wouldn't increase DPS by 20% but 25%, and if we were at 50% increase in speed, we would double our DPS.

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Not exactly on topic but this has piqued my interest before. In my job when I mark up a product we divide by the reciprocal. (If I mark something up 25%, I calculate as cost/.75 -- not cost*1.25). I kind of understand the nuance of the math itself (dividing by a decimal vs increasing by 25%)

But I guess my question would be - how would you know when to do which calculation? For example, if Darkside increases damage by 20% - how do you determine it should be calculated as x1.20 instead of /.80?

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the nature of what you're trying to calculate. I don't know, it's just one of those weird things I can't quite wrap my head around lol

I don't know if this helps, but it definitely has to do with what you are comparing. I don't know that this has a general solution in all contexts of what to do.

Keeping with the damage examples, Darkside increases damage dealt by 20%. 1 GCD deals its damage and then an additional 20%. We are really comparing two different units at the same time
1 GCD deals 100 damage compared to 1 GCD deals 100 + 20% damage.

So how should we compare the following
1 GCD for 100 potency compared to
.9 GCD for 100 potency?

Rather than dealing with fractions of a GCD, I find it easier to compared 1 GCD to 1 GCD so I seek to scale my .9 GCD to 1 GCD which is achieved by dividing by .9, we scale our potency unit in the same way.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

We are really comparing two different units at the same time

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Thanks Chrono, that kinda helps. Logic was leading me into thinking along the lines of units, and I'm starting to see it also has a lot to do with the nature of comparison. Like in the speed example, if you're attacking 50% faster your actually adding twice the amount of attacks or "units". (100 divided into halves is 200). If we are only increasing damage by 50% then the attack unit is still the same 1:1, it's just 50% more potent.

Doesn't help me understand my real world situation much (why we do one vs the other) but that's not too relevant here. I just wanted to try and clarify how you know which is proper to use. I had a hard time finding anything other than long division learning example type stuff.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Doesn't help me understand my real world situation much (why we do one vs the other) but that's not too relevant here. I just wanted to try and clarify how you know which is proper to use. I had a hard time finding anything other than long division learning example type stuff.

Thanks!

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Yeah I don't really know business terminology myself so I don't think I can break down what a mark up is without knowing the definitions. If it makes your feel better I have no idea why your are dividing by .75 and not multiplying by 1.25 its not immediately obvious, but I'm guessing it has to do with what a mark up means.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Like in the speed example, if you're attacking 50% faster your actually adding twice the amount of attacks or "units". (100 divided into halves is 200).

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I'm no math wizard but unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying here, I am pretty sure that is incorrect.

Adding twice the number of attacks would be doubling them which equates to an increase of 100% equaling a total speed of 200% of the initial speed.

Basically, you can use the basic physics equation for calculating speed to see it.

Lets break it down.

As an equation it would look something like the following with D being distance (the substitute for "units" of damage, i.e. # of attacks in this instance, here), T being time and S being speed.
D/T = S

Now if we were to then increase speed by 50% that means that we are increasing S by 50% or in other words multiplying it by 1.5.
Then because of the Golden Rule of Equations, what we do to one side of a linear equation we must do to the other which results in it looking like this
(D/T)x1.5 = Sx1.5

Now let's use this to solve for D by cancelling out the T on the left side, leaving us with D compensated for the increase to S, by multiplying both sides by T
(D/T)x1.5xT = Sx1.5xT which is the same as Dx1.5 = SxTx1.5

This shows that increasing speed by 50% does not double the rate of or # of attacks but increases it proportionately, so only half an extra attack per attack which would equate to one extra attack every two attacks, not double the attacks.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Yeah I don't really know business terminology myself so I don't think I can break down what a mark up is without knowing the definitions. If it makes your feel better I have no idea why your are dividing by .75 and not multiplying by 1.25 its not immediately obvious, but I'm guessing it has to do with what a mark up means.

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Markup is the term used for the price increase to an item or service based on the cost of goods. Essentially how much a store increases the price of what they had to pay for an item when they are selling it in order to cover labor/operations costs and to hopefully turn a slight profit.

So if a store sells an item for 20% greater than it cost them to acquire that item, that is a 20% markup.

As for when to divide versus when to multiply, when dealing with percents you pretty much always want to multiply. Trying to use division can lead to incorrect results.

The best way to conceptualize it is to translate the calculations into "plain language".

Let's look at the 20% markup example.
A 20% markup means an additional 20% added to the price, or 100% + 20% = 120% which equates to multiplying by 1.2

Trying to divide the price by 0.8 is incorrect because what you are actually asking is "how many 0.8's make up the price" which is something completely different than what is 120% of the price.

Here is a simple equation showing this where the price of something is $100 and the markup is 20%.

100x1.2 = $120
100/0.8 = $125

The results are not the same.

So lets play with the second calculation to see what is really happening.

100/0.8 = 125

Now let's cancel out the "/0.8" on the left side to see the relationship between the original price and 125.

(100/0.8)x0.8 = 125x0.8 which results in 100 = 125x0.8 which reorganized is 125x0.8 = 100

This shows that 100 is actually 80% of 125, not 120% of 100 is 125.

Therefore we can see that dividing a number by a percent is actually asking "X number is Y percent of what?".

Well, the simple answer I got was because it's more profit lol. As Touch ended his quote, it's not 100 marked up 20% but rather 100 divided into units of .80, of which there would be 125. That's not the same as adding 20% of 100 to 100 (which would be 120). So, I think in the long run it just has to deal with replacement cost of physical merchandise. I'll leave it at that for now. Appreciate the inputs!

Carry on DRK discussions ;)

EDIT: I couldn't leave it at that, because I think I might have actually figured it out lol. As it relates to normalizing/scaling the units that Chrono mentioned, I think by scaling to a fraction of a "unit" kind of unifies replacement costs - regardless of the cost itself. As in, at 20% markup the 5th unit sold will always cover the costs of a new one. Whereas that might not always be true if we are marking up based on the $ alone. Something like that anyways.