Can Healers Stop Running Ahead in Dungeons

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Originally Posted by Frizze

A good tank can control a smooth pull and set up their group to succeed(enmity, cooldowns, positioning, etc). A great tank can take a chaotic mess and turn it into a smooth pull.

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I've already said it is doable, just not enjoyable, and it is not my preferred way to play or learn. I pull just fine, when I see an opportunity to do more I do. A great tank can take chaotic mess and make it smooth but not every tank likes to be constantly doing that. Does that not make sense? Yes I have my "oh shit" skills that can help me gain control of the situation and mitigate damage but is this something I need to be doing all the time because someone is "hurting cause they can't do AOE"... That sounds like a personal issue to me.

My argument is, the tank is the tank, plain and simple. Each person is their own individual but we each have a role to play. That's why we have jobs/classes each with it's own strengths and weaknesses. It's kind of mind boggling this isn't already understood. If you're hurting that bad just say "Ouchy I need to do AOE or I'm going to die".

I'm actually over this nonsense myself and have found a very simple solution. To play how I want, let them play how they want, and see what happens. I am a human being trying to enjoy some game time and play socially with others, I do not owe anyone anything, I don't have to move at a set speed, I don't have to pull what you want me to, I just have to tank, that's it. Everyone who wasn't born yesterday knows what a tanks role is in a dungeon. Those who aren't clear on this will learn the hard way, plain and simple.

I came to this solution by thinking about how I play on my healer and why I don't engage mobs and run ahead of the tank. Do you know what the answer is? Because I don't want to die! :D Wow that was easy. It's like a no brainer.

Healers run past you if they want to do something. Pull sets of 2-3 and that keeps em happy. A sch with a pet up will cook dinner if you pull single sets.

They want to have fun, if they want more, they feel comfortable keeping you alive. Try trusting them?

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

Healers run past you if they want to do something. Pull sets of 2-3 and that keeps em happy. A sch with a pet up will cook dinner if you pull single sets.

They want to have fun, if they want more, they feel comfortable keeping you alive. Try trusting them?

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they could also trust me regarding the pull size.

happened especially in ala mhigo at the two monkey robots after the first boss... i like to pull them one by one, because the monkeys have so much HP that aoe's aren't that effective and i also have to use too much defense for them, wich leads to problems when i pull the next group with the dogs to the wall into the other group there :O
but almost every time someone pulls the second monkey, usually the healer.

another example is fractal continuum hard mode, at the beginning. i prefer to pull the minotaur and chimera group one by one, because it's way easier to handle with dodging the minotaur and stunning the chimera without dozens of little enemys in between wich are pushing the two big ones around :X
it doesn't happen that often that someone pulls the chimera, but it happens often enough.

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Originally Posted by Aelio

I am a human being trying to enjoy some game time and play socially with others, I do not owe anyone anything, I don't have to move at a set speed, I don't have to pull what you want me to, I just have to tank, that's it.

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Alternatively, I can vote kick you, because I can easily just heal the dps through your one pack at a time pace while we wait for a tank that can do their job more efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Aelio

My argument is, the tank is the tank, plain and simple. Each person is their own individual but we each have a role to play. That's why we have jobs/classes each with it's own strengths and weaknesses. It's kind of mind boggling this isn't already understood. If you're hurting that bad just say "Ouchy I need to do AOE or I'm going to die".

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I knew there was a decent chance someone would take that line and misrepresent it to try and make their point. Allow me to elaborate. The only class i play in group content is BLM. I have a few other classes at various levels, but i dont feel my skill is high enough to bring them into "real" content. I wouldnt want some group of strangers to suffer because i decided to bring a class i suck at rather then what ive specialized in - my pride doesnt want me to give less then my best. And beyond that, its the class i enjoy so im always happy to bust out the big guns. So because i am always on BLM, every group im in has good aoe potential(with another class that has an aoe focus this becomes great or phenomenal potential). The way BLM aoes work, most of our spells dont suffer damage degradation(and with target switching i can manage the ones that do). Because of this, I can kill 4 groups in about the same amount of time i can kill 1 group. Knowing my potential to be better and do more, why would i be fully satisfied plinking my way through one at a time? I take pride in showing my best whenever possible, so why wouldnt it hurt me a little inside to do such a small amount of what im capable of? You say youre still learning tank, and thats fine. Id never pressure a new tank to go nuts. But i would tell them they can trust me to do my part if they do stretch themselves a little bit. I would tell them that i wont get upset if they try for more but cant handle it yet and the fight doesnt go smoothly. Hell, if they were on my server and having trouble id help them get some better gear afterwards. Id help hook them up with some of my super-experienced friends who could offer pointers about their class and whatever issues they have. You keep saying "the tank is the tank". Yes, but the tank is only 25% of the group. Youre important(to a point), but you arent god.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Alternatively, I can vote kick you, because I can easily just heal the dps through your one pack at a time pace while we wait for a tank that can do their job more efficiently.

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Im not gonna lie, ive BLM-tanked every dungeon from sastasha to shisui over the years(and ive started on the 70 dungeons too). Usually its: tank disconnects because of connection issues, group gets tired of waiting(or decides right away not to wait), we continue on fairly smoothly(this is mostly dependent on healer skill and i love every healer ive ever tried/pulled one of these off with - you guys rock). BLM is kinda overpowered for tanking purposes. Manawall and an attentive healer can handle all but the spiciest of tankbusters(BLM also benefits from being a class with a low death penalty - i can have all my mana back in 2-3 server ticks and be back into my rotation so my only downside would be weakness). Between an enmity reducer a dump and actual high damage spells managing agro isnt usually that hard. BLMs already need to think about positioning to perform at their peak, and as much as tanks complain about "mechanics" most of them seem to target DPS players anyway so we're used to it. Those groups are interesting and exciting, a real chance to be challenged and see how much i can do. One-group-at-a-time-tank pulls? I could do those fights with my monitor off. And i mean that literally - set healer to follow, tab for a target when i hear skills start to go off, i know exactly how many of each spell i have mana for and can do my aoe or single target rotations by memory, if i dont hear my spells and i still hear fighting then my target died and tab to the next, continue until fighting sounds stop. I dont know how that sounds to you, but it sure sounds boring to me.

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Originally Posted by Aelio

I've already said it is doable, just not enjoyable, and it is not my preferred way to play or learn... That sounds like a personal issue to me.

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Couldnt agree more.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Some people will push others to achieve greatness. But only the great will reach for it when given.

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People dont tend to learn skills they dont practice at. If one is never in a position where greatness is asked of them then how can they every truly become great?

You might have a better argument if dungeons weren't so pitifully weak that the whole "fine let the dps/healer keep what they pulled" didn't end in the dps not only winning but killing theirs faster than you.

Or allow for a RDM to tank the majority of Swallows Compass 3 man while waiting for the tank to reconnect.

You can dislike how your party goes about things, but the same answer for people complaining about low/weak performance in df applies here: use party finder instead.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Alternatively, I can vote kick you, because I can easily just heal the dps through your one pack at a time pace while we wait for a tank that can do their job more efficiently.

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I understand the frustration on both ends and as dps and occasionally heals, I make it a rule to stay behind the tank if possible. If it takes a little longer in the dungeon to let the tank pull slower, fine, no biggie. Aelio is annoying though so I am giving you a LIKE and praying that I never get a tank with healer hate in the future.

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Originally Posted by Besame

I understand the frustration on both ends and as dps and occasionally heals, I make it a rule to stay behind the tank if possible. If it takes a little longer in the dungeon to let the tank pull slower, fine, no biggie. Aelio is annoying though so I am giving you a LIKE and praying that I never get a tank with healer hate in the future.

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lol I don't have healer hate, I am a healer. The things I was saying was in relation to a dps but not that it matters too much. Anyone going in front of the tank and causing chaos is unnecessary. lol but feel free to be annoyed if you want.