Is anyone else dying to get to Garlemald?

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Side note: despite past transgressions, Nero is starting to shift to the side of good, even if he's still insufferably smug and selfish about it. At least I think he is, but that could just be confirmation bias since I make no effort to hide the fact I want him to become a heroic instance of a Garlean.

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At this point I think Nero is going to be the guy who gets the WoL into Garlemald at this rate.

Still there is a chance we may meet a Garlean that is willing to help us get into Garlemald later in the storyline since some may see the current development of Garlean Empire's actions as something that makes them question if this is the Garlean Empire they wanted. It is after all most recent that the Garlean Empire begun to add BoW into their army ranks.

I would not be surprised if some of those BOW were once Garleans that were against the current goals of the Garlean Empire and were arrested for speaking out then used to turn into these BoW because that way they are more "loyal" by their BoW programming.

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Originally Posted by Klonoa7

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The Empire has its hands soaked in innocent blood, but let's not pretend any of the Eorzean city-states are better.

In Gridania, there's an entire side quest about a Keeper miqo who's looking for her sister, and the wood wailers, out of sheer racism, threaten to rape her when she turns to them for help just for potentially having a relative implicated in poaching. I mean, they were going to rape her, the WoL just steps in. This is the city-state that would throw babies in a well to follow the whims of these nigh-malignant spirits that don't even have much power right now after Bahamut razed the woods in the Calamity.

Ul'Dah is a plutocracy where the only coin... is the coin itself. Blood, honour, none of it matters. Lest we forget, the disaster at the end of 2.5 was brought about two Ul'Dah entrepreneurs trying to outpower each other with complete disregard for all others involved. This idea is so indoctrinated that most Ul'Dah citizens believe this is the right way to do things (cue what happened in Little Ala Mhigo).

Limsa has the whole piracy thing, and it's frequently hinted that many corners are less-than-reputable, and surely not safe. Corruption grows at large.

Ishgard had a stratified society where the nobility seemed perfectly content with letting its own die of frostbite and starvation- children included- and was competing with Gridania on the racist scale.

And lovely Ala Mhigo had a regime where not only did they slaughter their own, they invaded Gridania before the Empire struck.

We (the city-states) are the primary reason why beast-tribes summon primals, which happens with or without the empire, because we're just as racist towards them (and often carry out acts of unprovoked hostility, like we see with Limsa breaking the pack of non-aggression with the Kobolds).

This irks me a lot about the game and the story sometimes. It demonises the Empire, who surely is despotic, but elevates Eorzea who is honestly just as terrible.
Were there not a common enemy for us to unite against, Eorzea would also fall to infighting, as it did before.

If I can work with these corrupt nations and their twisted ruling bodies, I've no reason to believe I cannot eventually work with the Empire itself.
Much like in FF12, for all their evil and violent practice, the Empire's core mission has some good we can salvage, much like any other faction we came across.
They've frequently tried to kill me, but just about every nation has at this point.
I'll just beat them senseless, then we can surely talk like rational people.

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Originally Posted by Klonoa7

Garleans are a threat to the entire world as it's our duty to end them once and for all. There is no cooperating with them as they desire conquest and destruction, not peace, and therefore must be destroyed for the good of Eorzea.

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Hey? Guess what? Ethnic cleansing is evil. You are at least as worse as anything the Garleans have ever done if you condone wiping them off the face of the planet.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

This irks me a lot about the game and the story sometimes. It demonises the Empire, who surely is despotic, but elevates Eorzea who is honestly just as terrible.
Were there not a common enemy for us to unite against, Eorzea would also fall to infighting, as it did before.

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As much as I'd want a more nuanced view of Garlemald (past the already few nuanced exceptions we've gotten), I really don't think Eorzea is just as bad as Garlemald. The city-states certainly have skeletons in their closet and skeletons that are actively burning and pillaging outside of their closet, but Garlemald's core government has made itself very clear that it's going to conquer all of Hydaleyn by force of arms, and was willing to use dangerous weapons like Ultima and an entire goddamn moon just to subjugate a continent. And yes I know Gaius opposed the Meteor Project, but it was still something that was condoned by the Empire's government.

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Originally Posted by NoblePigeon

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It's funny, because from their view, as a race that cannot use magic, for the common civilian reading the headlines, it's probably the same. Our aetherial gadgets, tupsimati, people summoning primals, people becoming primals... we even activated Omega first (and that isn't turning out so good for us).
Especially about the WoL.
A secret magic weapon that can destroy any Eikon and topple any legion.

And no one can convince me that someone like Lolorito wouldn't have a bit of fun with Omega if he could control it (and I love that little rascal).

Evil intent is seen on these small things- not the big ones. An evildoer with a big gun will always do more damage than an evildoer with a small one, and that's just what you described.
We kill our own and others just as easily as Garlemald does. In 2.X, Ul'Dah wasn't keen on financing the war, Gridania didn't care and Limsa seemed to be seeking a pretext to sustain its power structure.
It's all rosy while we're winning, but when we're losing, the whole alliance falls apart. We're integral to its success because we're the only reason anyone can believe anything can be achieved (a belief that turns out to be true, most of the time).
At the heart of it, the populace of either side and part of the ruling body of either side seem about the same level of evil.
Garlemald just has more power to exercise said evil.
But I'm a Keeper, so seeing a Keeper being almost raped by the authorities on said sidequest really made me raise an eyebrow.

Gridania is full of militant hippies. Despite claims of such, it is not a free nation - it lives at the whim of the Elementals, and said Elementals do not possess a normal sense of morality.

Ul'dah is a virtual plutocracy, the influence of the Syndicate barely held in check by the Sultanate. Even then, class mobility is virtually nonexistent.

Limsa is full of pirates. Other than that it's pretty dece.

Ishgard was a theocracy that, like Ul'dah, possessed little class mobility. How much better it's gotten since 3.x remains to be seen.

Ala Mhigo was belligerent at times and caused trouble for some of the other city-states. If they make it better than it was remains to be seen.

For all their faults and flaws, however, the Eorzean city-states share one thing in common: they do not go on bloody wars of conquest for its own sake. Garlemald uses the problem of primals as an excuse to conquer and subjugate people.

No nation is without sin. The difference between Eorzea and Garlemald is that Eorzea does not start wars for no good reason. The war to liberate Ala Mhigo was a very complex situation - needless to say even if we hadn't taken the offensive Garlemald would still have come for us, and knowing that taking the initiative was a better idea.

If stories of us reach Garlean citizens, they probably do fear us - and rightly so. We slaughter their countrymen by the hundreds. If given the option I would let them live, but when it's war... things that happen in war often go further than you wish. The Garleans have made war their way of life - they should expect casualties. We don't know what the death toll on either side of this little war was, but by virtue of their superior equipment I'd wager it's higher on the Eorzeans' side.

The Garleans fight for their own gain. Eorzea fights to end the fighting and go home.

I'm Xaela. My people were slaughtered en masse by the Ishgardian military because the Inquisition suspected them of heresy - dragon resemblance and all that. They were refugees fleeing - you guessed it - Garlemald!

... I still fought for the nation with my all. Injustice cannot be met with injustice, or the cycle will simply perpetuate itself.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

And no one can convince me that someone like Lolorito wouldn't have a bit of fun with Omega if he could control it (and I love that little rascal).

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Lolo is a greedy, manipulative, power hungry douche bag, but, he is not evil. Strangely, his niece Liliju is a nice person though and seems to admire the WOL

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I'm Xaela. My people were slaughtered en masse by the Ishgardian military because the Inquisition suspected them of heresy - dragon resemblance and all that. They were refugees fleeing - you guessed it - Garlemald!

... I still fought for the nation with my all. Injustice cannot be met with injustice, or the cycle will simply perpetuate itself.

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Quite frankly I was content to let Isgard destroy itself. Aymeric and Lucia(due to her devotion to Aymeric) were the only Isgardians trying to end the war everyone else was so obsessed over their war with the dragon's that even when the truth came out that it was Ishgard's fault all along they were hesitant to make amends with the dragons. Even after Vidofnir saved a little girl that was about to be murdered by a disillusioned priest in broad daylight, there were still many people who conspired to keep the dragonsong war going and the only reason the peace ultimately succeeded was because the conspirators were all either killed or committed suicide as an aftermath of their riot.

Nidhogg's assassination attempt on his own kind probably helped as well as people were chanting for Nidhogg's death and not all dragonkind.

It's almost as if these things are more nuanced than 'kill everybody associated with a specific nation'.

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Originally Posted by Klonoa7

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Your belief that garleans should be nuked for the reasons you specified is also flawed because most of the soldiers who commit said crimes aren't even garlean.

Garlemald isn't without flaws. With that said, whilst it's easy to take the high ground and say that the Garleans shouldn't have resorted to such desperate measures...their hand was pretty much forced. They became bitter and cynical after being forcibly relocated from fertile lands and made to live in a wasteland whilst defending themselves against constant attacks at the hands of their neighbours. Life wasn't pleasant at all for them - and so when they found a means to finally reverse their fortunes, they took it and embraced it.

They also never had the luxury of a Warrior of Light to solve all their problems. Eorzea - and now Othard - do. They also never had the luxury of magic to solve all their problems. I'm pretty sure if you removed the Warrior of Light from the equation then the people of Eorzea would resort to equally desperate measures themselves in order to solve their various issues. In fact, that's pretty much a given as the likes of Ilberd and the Archbishop of Ishgard have proven. There's a good chance that they would have succeeded, too.