SE needs to show DoL ALOT more love in 4.0

Min and btn bots are a more suffocated script. Much harder to implement than a FSH bot. Also the majority of btn/min bots are low lvl gathering crystals and low mats. I've only seen two heavensward folklore bots on my server....two ain't gonna do anything too serious. But image if FSH was worth something?? You could have like 10 bots sitting at one whole moving around a bit to avoid "amiss..." proc.

But there is glam on FSH. You got fish tanks, old catches give you glamour clothes, and catching fishes gives you achievements... and a few money makers here and there.

Actually patience is an OP skill that btn and miner wisssh they had!!! Btn/min spends 500gp on king's then 100 on gather rate (and if they an OP player another 100 on HQ 10%). If they RNG bless then they get 3 hq mats at 25%hq rate.

Meanwhile you spend 570 for 80% hq for 2min+ while you wait 10-15sec for a bite while recovering 5 gp every 3 sec. (Max gp and gather rate is king!!!) But at 600 gp you get 3 heavy hooks in 2 mins and typically can only catch 6 fishes in 2min! Mind you that 80% on top of your perception (assuming you met perception min). But min/btn (though they naturally get more mats) don't avg 50% HQ

Note: btn/min could do rotation that avg 50%+ but HQ would have to be worth some 4 times NQ to be worth that rotation.

Actually, HQ materials (even HQ fish) are something of a red herring. Competent crafters are constantly looking to be able to craft using entirely NQ materials, because of the price markup on the HQ version of the materials. People tend to buy HQ materials when they are not sure of their crafter; but the crafters themselves are far more likely to buy NQ materials unless they are worried about being able to HQ the recipe.

I agree the OP crafters can hq with NQ. But most crafters aren't OP and before you got max gear and everything cost a shiny penny.....last thing you WANT to happen is 93% NQ syn....had you add just a lil HQ mats....

LOL it does not require being OP to craft HQ with all NQ materials ... I'd say, it merely takes not being underpowered or undergeared for your level, and having the requisite cross class skills, and some small modicum of luck, though that luck is present at any point you are using Hasty Touches or any other move that has less than 100% success rate.

There is demand for HQ gathered materials, but the primary buyers tend to be less experienced crafters or non-crafters. Most experienced crafters will prefer to buy NQ materials and then will either HQ intermediate components using them or even NQ the intermediate materials. The largest demand for HQ mats is probably early on when a new tier of crafts is released (provided that they are crafted differently from the last….).

To craft from all NQ, all it really takes is the appropriate cross class skills, the minimum required craftsmanship and control, and enough CP. The rest is up to the crafter’s own developed methods. With extra control and craftsmanship, your overall HQ yield will be a few percent higher, but it isn’t a world of a difference. I’d love to be able to try out max melded gear, however, but the cost isn’t worth it.

In terms of technique, manual freehand crafting would be the way to go so I would recommend to any interested crafter to ditch pre-designed static/semi-static rotations as soon as they can. They aren’t robust or powerful enough to craft final products reliably from all NQ imo.

I like everything the last guy said. But macros are OP if the success rate of HQ matches the markup on HQ product sold. Example I can make max potions with macro at about 50% HQ rate (which sounds low) but my markup on HQ is 4 times the nq mat cost so that moreee than covers my success rate and sometimes I get the NQ pots to sell at cost so it's a super win-win.

Not exactly a response to this discussion - more a comment on how I viewed everything when trying to level the majority to 60 in short order.

First nuisance as a Crafter was that once your crystals drained up, you then have to consider your wallet or your own elbow grease. Given I had 2xGathering Retainers to help feed my desire to craft my way to glory, they helped bypass that hurdle. However, just yesterday a person in NN mentioned how they dreaded having to go out and gather crystals so they could craft (manually) - it's just not very fun, which is first and foremost. Gathering is pretty easy to do, but not overly exciting - I could have gotten materials I needed manually, but until Diadem cropped up, it just felt better to buy the damn stuff or have retainers do the grunt work while I bugger off to a roulette.

Cut to the future and I'm now funding crafting via Diadem & Retainers, NOT gathering (aside from levelling it up and gathering things at least once so my retainers can then fill in the void later). Something is already amiss, here. Is it that it's not rewarding? Not fun? Why am I resorting to hoops instead of playing the Gatherer? Sure, there have been PLENTY of times where I've logged in and just felt like going on a gathering binge, or I really, REALLY wanted a huge amount of specific materials in a hurry - but aside from that, there didn't feel like there was any real point.

As for crafting, I rejoiced at finally managing to reach 60 - even now I'm still fluffing up their ilevels via the collectibles/token shire gear... But then you unlock Master Recipe's and realize just how many materials you need to make MATERIALS to make MORE MATERIALS to make desirable items, most of which (from a gathering perspective) is either gated behind unspoiled nodes or simply have to be bought outright at extortionate prices. Pray tell why I should bother to even try and make that stuff for mass-fortunes of gil when there's an expansion on the way and I can comfortably craft non-master recipe's in shire gear and enjoy my DoW/DoM who don't even need crafted gear? Since most things require scrips, now, I haven't actually went out and gathered ANYTHING for weeks.

I guess if there's anything to take from the above, it's that DoL & DoH tend to go hand in hand (or are at least SUPPOSED to in terms of 'Gather > Craft'), so a review of both might be in order rather than just focusing purely on the gathering side. The market-board side of things will never be the answer.

Show DoL love? I'm cool with that. They can start by getting rid of unspoiled nodes and the gathering node books for starters, that would be an amazing first step. In addition to that, the higher level items that have an enforced gathering cap so you can't reach 100%? That needs to go to along with the cap on 15% HQ chance on items. There needs be more reward for higher level gear.