Raid gear set bonus

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Originally Posted by Rongway

In what way would that make people not insist that party members are wearing set bonus gear for raids?

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And what is the bad part about that? raid is suposed to be the serious content you put effort in and are expected to give your best. If I make a party for a raid turn, I would expect people to be geared and play accordinly to that turn and bring their A game. The reason they don't wanna give raid gear special effects or bonuses is because they would impose it even on normal roulette dungeons where people play casually, where you would meet newbies or people who don't raid at all, and they would get harrased and kicked for not having that gear.

The only reason I like set bonuses in WoW is because they often do interesting things, especially late expansion 4pcs. If you just want to introduce bland passive stat increases, I'd rather they just not even bother.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

More evidence on why raiding was the biggest mistake of the genre.

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More like the biggest mistake is allowing people to get past level 5 without a group. My evidence? The 800+ page thread about the duty finder.

Where's yours?

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

And what is the bad part about that? raid is suposed to be the serious content you put effort in and are expected to give your best. If I make a party for a raid turn, I would expect people to be geared and play accordinly to that turn and bring their A game. The reason they don't wanna give raid gear special effects or bonuses is because they would impose it even on normal roulette dungeons where people play casually, where you would meet newbies or people who don't raid at all, and they would get harrased and kicked for not having that gear.

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It would still affect Raid Finder parties, which are already disinclusive as it is. People will be expected to be wearing set bonus gear even before they've had an opportunity to obtain it.

It's absurd, clearly, but you know that that's the kind of attitude people have in the NA/EU Raid Finders.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

More like the biggest mistake is allowing people to get past level 5 without a group. My evidence? The 800+ page thread about the duty finder.

Where's yours?

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All the complaints over both Diadems. 2.0's Relic quest being as good as the raid weapon. Mythology offering good gear. Hunts offering items to upgrade your gear. Syrcus Tower offering items to upgrade your gear. i210 relic being such a ridiculous grind so "raiders aren't hurt". Diadem in 3.1 being murdered because raiders complained.

I don't even get the mentality. When I was raiding post 2.2 I was starved for other things to do, because way too often, other content was worthless to me. Why would you want that?

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Originally Posted by Ririta

I don't even get the mentality. When I was raiding post 2.2 I was starved for other things to do, because way too often, other content was worthless to me. Why would you want that?

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The amount of Raid content in modern day MMOs is abyssal. When ARR came out, there was.. not even a raid unless you want to count coil as a raid. Then it was one. WoW was the same way in 2004, you had like 2 places to go.

And there's no excuse for that. If you look at Everquest where the last 2 expansions along with the current one is relevant. They're on their 23rd expansion.. but the raids in the 22nd, 21st and for some people, the 20th are all relevant. Too often do you get into a situation (and all MMOs pretty much do this for some reason), where you raid, like once or twice a week and then for the other 5 or 6 days you're not doing anything but maybe leveling an alt.

But the reason is pretty easy to pick out. Way way too much focus on both solo and leveling content. That's the ONE thing EQ doesn't do. Every so often they'll do an expansion that raises the level cap, but you'll see 2-3 expansions inbetween. Think about that. Imagine if the level cap was still 50. And HW through 3.0 to 3.5 was all group/raid content. No solo or leveling stuff. Then they do the same with SB.

Open your duty finder and look at Heavensward dungeons. Imagine if about a sixth of them were new 4 man dungeons, another sixth were 8 man, and the last 2/3rds were raids. That'd be alot of content.

Instead, over 80% of the resources, time, and effort was spent into MSQ. Explain the reasoning for that in a Massive Multiplayer Online game? I still have yet to understand the error you get when you enter a quest area and it states "you must leave your group to perform this duty". That makes no sense whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Instead, over 80% of the resources, time, and effort was spent into MSQ. Explain the reasoning for that in a Massive Multiplayer Online game?

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This might be an MMO, but it's still, first and foremost, a Final Fantasy.

What benefit would you get out of stat bonuses? I'm not quite sure i understand?

You don't have to bother with tomestones anymore..?
Now you.. can always blindly equip raid gear for BiS and lose the little tiny bit of customization you have?
The bad kind of 'Casuals' are now whining and crying about not having raid gear even more and raid gets nerfed to the ground?

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

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I'm not familiar with Everquest, but, does that actually changes things and makes other content as good as raiding?

The problem that I have with raiding is when the whole game starts revolving around it, from job design and balance to content rewards and structure, which happens in almost every MMORPG nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Is that a significant issue though? The fact that older gear could remain useful is an interesting point I think. I suppose it gets to that core issue where some people always want upgrades and to replace items and others think that perhaps things shouldn't be tossed out the second something else comes about. I mean I can see people arguing that both ways, I just meant to suggest that it isn't purely an issue.. could be argued as a double edged sword sort of deal~

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On average, people want to see higher numbers. It's why FFlogs is so popular. Gear from a previous tier providing better overall bonuses only hinders any sense of progression. Would you put in the same effort to clear Savage multiple times when say, your current chestpiece is better than anything Omega offers? Set bonuses only work if the content itself takes advantage of them. At the end of the day, they are merely stats. FFXIV's dungeons and normal modes are too easy for it to matter and going into Savage with gear that's noticeably inferior because you happen to like its benefit on BotD timing is silly.

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

I would love set effects. I never completely understood why they make us mix different sets pieces for BiS stats. For some jobs, it makes running certain raid floors pointless. AS11 for example, if your BiS pants are from tome set and easily upgraded with the previous floor item, why would you go with the effort of farming AS11. Or even worse for AS12 and a chest piece, why go through all that effort if your BiS piece is from tomes and you already have a BiS relic weapon. Raid gear should reward raiding. So my idea is, to prevent BiS set being imposed in every piece of content outside raid or get kicked from normal dungeons and primals for not having them, make the set effects only apply in the raid instances, pretty much just like PvP gear with its morale and materia stats outside of PvP maps.

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To keep people playing and provide multiple ways of gearing. Those pants from A11S may not be BiS but if they drop on week two, it'll be better than the 250 crafted version regardless of secondaries. This is also a team orientated game. What drops may not benefit you will be BiS for someone in your static. So you'll help farm to improve the raid's strength not just your own. Keep in mind, you can't skip ahead on any fights either. Want that 275 weapon? You're clearly A11S weekly because you won't be able to queue into A12S otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Instead, over 80% of the resources, time, and effort was spent into MSQ. Explain the reasoning for that in a Massive Multiplayer Online game? I still have yet to understand the error you get when you enter a quest area and it states "you must leave your group to perform this duty". That makes no sense whatsoever.

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Because more people care about the MSQ than raiding?

Many players pick up FFXIV because it focuses on content outside raiding. It even markets itself on story. Everquest and FFXIV cater to entirely different audiences. It's the equivalent of complaining Call of Duty lacks a good single player campaign. It does, because people who play CoD focus on the multi-player and don't really care. Likewise, Final Fantasy fans generally prefer story. And FFXIV is, well, a Final Fantasy game.