4.0 tank buff ability changes, please don't do this

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

Snip.

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First off, Yoshi-P was the one who said that talked about limiting button bloat by replacing old abilities with new ones to maintain roughly the same amount of buttons. The changes to Thunder I/Thunder II/Thunder III demonstrate this mentality. He also said that tying all 51 to 60 abilities to Job Quests limited them and that in SB not all new skills/trait gain will be limited by Job Quest and some of them will be gained just by leveling.

Second, Foresight is likely gone because it fills the same design space as Rampart/Shadowskin: a 20s defensive buff with a 90s cooldown. Rampart/Shadowskin (-20% damage for 20s every 90s) effect seem to have been classified as "a skill that each existing and future tank must have access to in their skill pool" just like Provoke was early on. Rampart/Shadowskin becoming a Role skill means that Warriors do not need to have Foresight. Even though it works slightly different it is still in the same design space. Removing it frees up that design space that can be used to make Warrior more distinct. Foresight was also causing problems even though most players were not aware of them. Ever notice that def/mdef growth ground from 20/30 points every 10 ilevels from i150 to i210 to a near halt of 4 points per 10 ilevels at i215? Due to being tied to def, Foresight varied in effectiveness depending on gear ilevel.

Third the speculation was not necessarily wrong. The OP got blasted because many posters don't really get design or what the dev team is trying to do. Just because Foresight is slightly different than Rampart/Shadowskin doesn't mean that it is not getting replaced by role skill Rampart/Shadowskin.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Darkside, like enochian would just be permanent probably and maybe finally have the outside mp regen penalty removed
mechanically dropping tank stance wouldnt really change, but you wouldnt need that button to cut it on or off(darkside)

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or they could just make it so darkside is permanent but the buff falls off for.. iunno like 30s or something? (that's a random number I pulled out of thin air please dont focus on that) if you let your mp hit 0

Kinda like how when you virus something it can't be virus-ed again for X seconds, if your mp hits 0 you lose darkside for X seconds, that way MP management is still greatly incentivized to optimize DPS and being able to use certain skills.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Rampart in a list of selectable role skills? Hope you like your DF tanks with no basic defensive cooldown ;)

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Which you can easily tell the newbie DF tank to equip if need be. This is far different than a Dark Knight coming into Ultima's Bane or another duty with required tank swaps without any levels in Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

This is far different than a Dark Knight coming into Ultima's Bane or another duty with required tank swaps without any levels in Paladin.

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Man I had forgotten that you need to tank swap in Ultima still, nowadays I just go unsynched with 6-7 dps and kill him in about 30 seconds. XD

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Man I had forgotten that you need to tank swap in Ultima still, nowadays I just go unsynched with 6-7 dps and kill him in about 30 seconds. XD

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Had it happen several times when doing Mentor Roulettes. Started checking at all Warriors and Dark Knights for Paladin level 22 when I ended up in an EX.

The way Yoshida phrased the changes, makes me think the other cross class skills will be Dark Mind, and Foresight.
The way he switched into mentioning a tank needing to pick between physical mitigation or magical mitigation, when talking about changes to rampart/cross class skills, makes me think he's going to focus on giving each tank phsyical and magical mitigation, seperated, so the tank has to actively choose, and since they will all do this, place it in cross class skill list.
(Foresight/Dark Mind being the only examples I can think of for this, if u take 1 from the other 2 jobs)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

The way Yoshida phrased the changes, makes me think the other cross class skills will be Dark Mind, and Foresight.
The way he switched into mentioning a tank needing to pick between physical mitigation or magical mitigation, when talking about changes to rampart/cross class skills, makes me think he's going to focus on giving each tank phsyical and magical mitigation, seperated, so the tank has to actively choose, and since they will all do this, place it in cross class skill list.
(Foresight/Dark Mind being the only examples I can think of for this, if u take 1 from the other 2 jobs)

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Gasp! You think we will see options to actually customize your job's build now?

This is something I can get behind.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Gasp! You think we will see options to actually customize your job's build now?

This is something I can get behind.

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-snerk-
I doubt it. If there aren't many good options, you just have to pick the mandatory few. If there are many good options, you'll have to change your cross-class skills before every dungeon/boss to accommodate it. Hopefully the process can be macro'd in the latter case.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

-snerk-
I doubt it. If there aren't many good options, you just have to pick the mandatory few. If there are many good options, you'll have to change your cross-class skills before every dungeon/boss to accommodate it. Hopefully the process can be macro'd in the latter case.

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Oh I know. It would basically be reduced to "how much physical or magical damage does this fight demand? = Take X," BUT, on the bright side, it would actually fix some of the balance problems plaguing PLD right now if they did that, at least the ones that relate to magical damage mitigation, which still haunts PLD to this day.

If this kind of different choices for playstyle were available for all classes without incredibly obvious choices (like SMNs having to choose between Raging Strikes and Hawk's Eye, for example), it would add a TINY bit of variety to a horribly stiff game, though, and that's something that I would enjoy.

I don't see any problems with this.

outside of the fact that they have different names, they are literally the same skill.