3.5/4.0 Speculation & Discussion (Spoilers)

No I dont think that just because you were once expelled from the land (We also dont truly know why they were expelled. I mean it could be because they were getting dangerous and already tried to take over the land but lost) you have the right to conquer it back, especially if lots of time passed between that. They might have had a bad start and had a bad place to live but this does not give them the right to conquer the world. Because in the end they did not just go back to conquer "their" lost land but also conquered lots of other lands.

In my opinion just because they might have started as a small nation with bad other factors around them does not change the fact that most of the portrayal ingame is evil. If a person goes around and murders people, they might get some sympathy because they might have had a bad childhood but this does not change the fact that they choose to murder someone. Even in their beginning they already partly used force to have other tribes by their side. And even if they tried to do it with negotiations in the past, the Galearns now are past any negotiations for trade and other things..all they want is the whole world under them and their belief. Conquering the world is not something positive and even if there are some good Galearns (I dont think that the common people are evil) the nation itself and what it stands for is not good.

I also dont really sympathize with the Ala Mhigans. At least not those that we mostly met until now. But I still like them more than the Galearns because at least they did not try to destroy a whole continent with a moon..

About the flag: But could a tight unity not also mean that anyone that does not fit into the unity might be disposed? Is a unity always just something positive? And having a flag that might symbolize some great traits does not make the nation behind the flag great. I am quite sure that we have lots of countries in the real world with nice ideals behind their creation of the flag but those might not always be the greatest countries.

I dont think that we will ever get to be true allies. Maybe there will be a time were they will choose our side (the enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing) but I dont believe that we will be as allies like we are to Limsa and the others. They would need to change the leaders of the Galearn and have most of the Galearns as sympathetic people. I believe that we might need to join forces against an greater evil but as soon as this is over we would probably just be enemies again. I mean how many true enemies do we have in the game? There is no real big other force like the Galearns in the world since most of the world belongs to them, so if they became allies we would not have a big bad human enemy anymore. We still have the Ascians but its imo already annoying that they are kinda behind any big bad thing in the game, no need to have them be it for every little thing..IMO they should just finally show that the Galearns really mean bad for Eorzea because right now we are mostly told how bad they are but dont really see why we should be afraid of them. I hope that 4.0 changes this a little.

It was done out of necessity, though. For the sake of survival - they had already been cast out of the lands they hailed from so why would they just roll over and let themselves be pushed around? We can only speculate but we can presume that they originally tried the route of peaceful trade and negotiation only for that to amount to nothing. We've already seen how pragmatic they can be and I suspect that when their origins were more humble and desperate they were more inclined to work towards peaceful solutions to their problems.

The parallels between Garlemald and Ishgard are very similar - both nations resorted to increasingly questionable means for the sake of their continued survival. There's a strong chance that Garlemald will become more moderate in the future for the sake of its continued survival - just like Ishgard did.

Either way, Garlemald isn't 'evil'. I feel like it does a disservice to the game's rich lore and track record of morally grey factions to brush it off as being a black and white affair. We've only been given a very tiny, biased glimpse at Garlemald from the side of an opposing faction. Much like how we only saw one side of Ishgard's war whilst working alongside the Ishgardians - at least until the gates opened up and we explored the territory held by the Dravanians. A lot of the issue, I feel, stems from a lot of posters around these parts applying their own sense of morality dictated by modern ideals to a fictional setting with factors most here cannot consider.

It'd be a real shame if Garlemald as a whole became little more than a stereotypical evil empire to be cut down - and given how heavily influenced by FFXII this game is I have little doubt that it is going to be equally or more complex than FFXII's Archadian Empire.

Yes, the more aggressive leaders need to be dealt with in regards to Garlemald but that's hardly any different to Eorzea. The Archbishop, for instance, is an excellent example. As is Ala Mhigo's former 'Mad King'. If Ilberd ends up taking control of the Ala Mhigan Resistance then he, too, will likely need to be put down or imprisoned. Just like this 'Zenos' we'll be seeing as a major antagonist in 4.0.

It's been implied that the Garlean story will take us into 5.0 and potentially even 6.0. At some point we'll be on friendlier terms, I suspect, especially since the Warrior of Light will be in a position to tackle Garlemald's issues directly (and I doubt the Warrior of Light or the Scions will want to throw something as large and influential as Garlemald into complete disarray since the consequences of that will result in a lot of innocent people on all sides dying).

Putting Garlemald aside temporarily, though, what else are people thinking will happen in 3.5/4.0?

Well, winding back to characters we hope won't just disappear once their side-quests end, I would really like Unukalhai to stick around. He's got a couple of interesting story-hooks, both as the one person who made it out of the Void before it became the Void and as a liaison with the Ascians for those emergencies where we have to declare a truce and work together, especially since Urianger has pretty firmly quit that internship.

Also, just really hoping 3.5 finally brings in a new Beast Tribe Alliance installment. All three of the Beast Tribe storylines in 3.0 heavily featured inter-species cooperation and we have Idyllshire growing into a joint human-goblin city, I feel like we need another set of Beast Tribe Alliance quests to bring this all together.

That'd be pretty neat. Idyllshire looks like it's going to be fairly large with a lot of buildings that can be explored so it'll be interesting to see what flavour text/NPC's and fresh services will be added there.

I'd also quite like to see a return of the Moogle Delivery quests to have us 'catch up' with some of the forgotten NPC's strewn throughout the 3.0 zones. We'll also likely see the conclusion of the Scholasticate quests soon too.

Unukalhai can't stick around, because we'd lose huge chunks of story that would normally be dedicated to key NPCs banging their heads against the wall over questions and problems that were once solved easily in a side story. Rest assured, whatever resolution Unukalhai gets this patch cycle will be absolutely perfect for everyone involved, so much so that nobody could possibly feel the need for a continuation. Or a minion. Or a TT card. We could even go an entire patch cycle without anyone remembering he existed, because his resolution will just be that perfect.

Ahem.

I would like more Postmoogle quests, since the rather lengthy message congratulating me for clearing them has been a constant obstacle to my Postmoogle usage since. Fortunately, my house has a mailbox.

And seconding the wish for some sort of finale quest for the 3.X beast tribes. I went back and got The Negotiator a couple patches ago, so I'd really like to catch up with those guys again and introduce them to Deftarm.

Its an interesting look into the cultural psychology of the Garleans and perhaps highlights the influences which have shaped much of the drive. There sounds like there is very much a 'with us or against us' kind of mindset. Either your part of our political structure or your a potential enemy. This served the besieged Garleans well when their survival was at stake but now it creates problem. I would also say they well and truly have retaken the lands they lost long ago. :P

4.0 will almost certainly have more to it but I think 4.0 will focus on Garleans as antagonists. I also think we will have to tangle with more extreme elements within the Ala Mhigan Resistance who might be making the situation worse. However I think we will find ourselves starting to get involved in Garlean politics, particularly as we get into the patches.

As for 3.5, I still think we will revisit Silvertear lake. More specifically the Keeper of the Lake. They indicated we would learn more about what Midgarsormr was guarding and beyond vague references to the Source we don't really have anything solid. More over, there are Garleans there. We still need a trigger to really drag us into Ala Mhigo which I don't think we have had yet and beyond another Garlean invasion, I don't see another trigger beyond the Garleans either getting their hands on something or starting work on something that forces us to go on the offence. If Zenos, the son of the Emperor, has been put in charge of Ala Mhigo, I think its safe to say that the Garleans are up to something.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I mean it could be because they were getting dangerous and already tried to take over the land but lost

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Not terribly likely.

One of the main traits, besides the third eye that helps with spatial recognition, is a lack of an innate ability use magic...a weakness other tribes in Ilsabard didn't share. Like groups in Eorzea routinely did, the various tribes fought over territory, and in those fights Garlemald was routinely at a disadvantage (and thus had to employ mercenaries, negotiate with or force their own intra-nation tribes to coalesce,and engage in various shadow wars of subterfuge simply to survive - and they didn't really start doing that until 922 of the Sixth Astral Era, so before that was a time when no major villages developed due to frequent raids and was when they were pushed north).

They didn't become dangerous enough to actually do more than survive until 1513 with the push towards using Ceruleum to power weapons of war.

Before they tipped the balance with technology, they were part of a status quo that they helped maintain just to survive, and before that they were little more than punching bags.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I would also say they well and truly have retaken the lands they lost long ago. :P

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Almost certainly have by this point.

Past Ilsabard, the key player in pushing for additional conquered lands was indeed Solus, whose ambition eventually surpassed simply controlling the territory they and the other tribes had fought over for centuries. It was also him that, after seeing the kind of draining of the land a primal type creature could do (in Othard, I believe it was), decided that such things were far too dangerous and had to be utterly dealt with permanently, which influenced his campaign against Eorzea (being fertile ground for that exact kind of threat).

For 3.5 and 4.0 though...while I do think there will be a focus on Garlemald as the antagonists, I think we may get a clearer picture just how much of that is centered around certain very powerful and influential individuals versus being the identity of Garlemald as a whole.

Not related directly to Garlemald on the other aspect, I think we'll either meet Yda's sister, or discover that the Yda we've known isn't the original and she's been playing the part of her sister for reasons yet uknown.

Regula is likely to be a key player in 3.5. So far he's been presented as a loyal, rather honourable man. Barring any shenanigans I doubt that will change - unless he is corrupted by Zurvan or in the aftermath of the final member of TWT being defeated. We know from the Sophia quest text that agents jealous of his success and position gained through merit have led him to have enemies back in the capital. I could see them sabotaging his efforts again, perhaps leading to a rather tragic fate. Just speculation, of course, but I doubt we're going to see a 'Kefka' situation play out - and if we do I doubt it will play out exactly as it did back in FF6.

I can't help but feel that whatever happens will tie in with the MSQ's. Varis is just too big a character despite his lack of screentime for his actions to be confined to a side quest and then never mentioned again. Xenos, too, may be introduced in 3.5 - or simply saved for 4.0 itself. Either way it does seem like he'll be a major antagonist along with those loyal to him. Though since Yoshi-P stated in a recent interview that 'nobody will sympathise with him' that, to me, makes me wonder if his actions will lead to us finally getting our 'Drace', 'Larsa' and/or 'Gabranth'. Again, I've said this before but it'd tie in perfectly with the FFXII references.

As for other antagonists there's going to be additional Primals/Eikons to deal with and likely two separate raid zones to serve as 4.0's 'Alexander' and 'Mhach' instances. We know there's going to be Eureka, too and I think it's safe to assume we'll get another POTD type instance as well - with a different antagonist, naturally.

...and as a random aside there's probably going to be a new Gold Saucer attraction at some point in the future. Right? I hope so.

It's rather hard not to talk about the Garleans when they've been set up as the primary antagonists of 4.0/4.x. They're taking center stage again...

van Hydrus will either die or be forced to slink back to Garlemald in shame and be stripped of his position.

Unukalhai will either die protecting Krile or leave of his own accord with the Triad finished.

The final Shadow of Mhach raid will take place in either the Floating City of Nym or an interstitial world between ours and the Void (like the World of Darkness). Scathatch is Queen of the Land of Shadows in Celtic myth, after all...

Maybe a 3.x Beast Tribe ending quest.

Apropos of nothing, Lusamine totally ended up being G-rated Ragyo. Given Pokémon is still a kids' game there's no physical or sexual abuse to be had, but the parallels otherwise are pretty staggering. Granted Lusamine isn't in her right mind for 99% of her screen time, but even so...

Hey, you should know by now I'm always up for talking about all things related to Garlemald. I'm just interested in discussing other stuff related to the game's lore too. ;)