With Eve gone, only sub based MMOs left are FFXIV and WoW

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Usually MMORPGs goes F2P because investors wants their money back ASAP, and F2P offers a fast initial income, but after that it always goes down til the game just dies.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

So even if ffxiv would make less profit they still can release content to gain subs back meanwhile f2p games don't have the ability to do that unless cash shop gives enough profit countless of f2p games were dead after a short time due that.

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Lineage II (2003), Everquest II (2004), Dungeons & Dragons (2006), Lords of the Ring (2007), Aion (2008), Star Trek (2010), Star Wars TOR (2011), and the list goes one are still alive and well after so many years being F2P games.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Well, League of Legends is not a MMORPG and can't be compared, since it's a different market.

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Or is it? I already made that point in another thread - WoW's playerbase declined rapidly in the same timeframe as League of Legends playerbase increased rapidly. It's very likely that a lot of players simply switched games, especially when you consider that other MMORPG did not gain those 6+ million people WoW lost over the last expansions. You do not only compete within your genre.

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Originally Posted by Silvarion

Lineage II (2003), Everquest II (2004), Dungeons & Dragons (2006), Lords of the Ring (2007), Aion (2008), Star Trek (2010), Star Wars TOR (2011), and the list goes one are still alive and well after so many years being F2P games.

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Did I stated there weren't any mmo f2p game that is successful? You may want to read again what I said. Lol

I knew this topic
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3896012
was going to lead to this topic.

A barrier to entry can exist in many forms.

• Cost to buy an online game.(What is accessible out of the gate?)
• Monthly cost to play an online game you bought.(Internet and a sub if it is mandatory)
• Levels required to access content or combat you enjoy.(What is accessible out of the gate?)
• Time investment required(How much can I accomplish given my money and time?)
• Real life and other games competing for this games time.(Is this game worth sacrificing some of that?)
• I like soloing/duoing with a really close friend(How often can I do that?)
• I like grouping with online strangers in difficult content(How much of the game is solo centric?)

No definitive answer here as it varies from player to player and fluctuates for some.

Would going F2P or B2P get more players to try the game? Absolutely, because it removes some of the barrier. But that doesn't guarantee players will continue playing the game consistently and spending money.

Would staying P2P only get more players to try the game? Absolutely, because usually people are willing to try something. But as we see here as well it doesn't guarantee players will continue playing the game consistently, though it does guarantee that whoever plays spends money because you can't play at all if you don't.

I believe that regardless of the model a good designed game that respects the users time, money, and life situation is more important than the model when it comes to player retention. In the thread I linked and various other threads you see that different people have different ideas of what makes a game good for them. and respects their needs.

Has the model SE used so far worked for them? Yes, it has allowed them to bring more/bigger patches and expansions than most games in the market. But still we see threads stating dislike for quick ilvl refreshes, similar dungeon designs, lack of open world, and various other stuff.

Does a subscription only game mean it is better than any other game on the market due to that fact? No, other games score lower, as high, or higher regardless of the payment model. Just as going F2P or B2P doesn't mean SE would make more money just because some study shows F2P make more money for x game.

TLDR: I don't see this game going F2P or whatever due to statements by Yoshi. This game is in no threat of dying regardless if the game stays P2P. A good game transcends models and ongoing retention or revisiting is the testament to how good a game is. If the ongoing retention and revisiting slows down to a crawl, then a change would have to be made unless the company didn't care if the game died or made less money.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

my personal preference is B2P, with an Optional Subscription that offers goodies.

ESO has this business model, and I really like it.

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ESO died a little for me when they started spending most of their cosmetic dev time on the store, it died completely for me when they released lockboxes. I prefer sub because it's piece of mind that this won't happen (excluding a few store-bought scion and event outfits).

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Originally Posted by Zafrei

(excluding a few store-bought scion and event outfits).

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Aaand a few store-exclusive mounts and the chinese outfits and the emotes and...

I dunno. At the current rate, it's going to become a "lot" to exclude.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Aaand a few store-exclusive mounts and the chinese outfits and the emotes and...

I dunno. At the current rate, it's going to become a "lot" to exclude.

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The Chinese outfits and emotes were related to a Chinese event weren't they? The other emotes were also event related too I think? Although you do have me on the mounts... still, I'd suggest taking a peek in the ESO or SWTOR store to see what really ruthlessly milking your customer base looks like. As far as FFXIV goes right now, I'm perfectly happy with the small amount of items they have in there, and still much prefer their sub fee model to any other MMO available right now.

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Originally Posted by Silvarion

Lineage II (2003), Everquest II (2004), Dungeons & Dragons (2006), Lords of the Ring (2007), Aion (2008), Star Trek (2010), Star Wars TOR (2011), and the list goes one are still alive and well after so many years being F2P games.

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You and I have drastically different definitions of "alive and well."

In my opinion, F2P is a bad plan for RP MMOs. I understand the need for cash shops, as people want vanity frills and having "rare drops" or gating them behind raids is (IMO) a bad plan in that it incentives people that have no interest in raiding to do it "just for the mount." It's smarter to have that stuff in a cash shop. Having rare vanity items sell for in game currency is also bad, as it drives RMT and botting.

However, the cash shop should never sell anything useful. Like in game currency or armor.

WoW has tokens, and I have already cancelled my subscription and only use those. There's never any shortage of them, so either there is no actual connection between gold sales and game time sales, or they are selling a LOT of gold to whales who want to make in game gold purchases, thus blowing up the economy even further.

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Originally Posted by Silvarion

Lineage II (2003), Everquest II (2004), Dungeons & Dragons (2006), Lords of the Ring (2007), Aion (2008), Star Trek (2010), Star Wars TOR (2011), and the list goes one are still alive and well after so many years being F2P games.

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They may be alive, but it's like hanging on for dear life, with some life support, It's like being bedreddin but a few attached people refuse to let it die, so it hangs on. so, alive? yes, well? Hardly. i have all but forgotten those games even existed at this point.