3.2, one of the best patches so far?

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03-20-2016, 03:43 AM
SerahFarron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Except that is markedly untrue. Prior to 3.2, Fending gear was objectively inferior to progression raiding.

I already pointed that out, I don\\'t know why you just repeated what I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This meant not only was gear specifically designed for tanks being left on the floor, it put three whole jobs at odds with melee DPS. Sure, they could (and should) fix Parry, but that doesn\\'t change the fact STR tanking was never intended to be a thing.

Wrong, if STR tanking was never intended then why did they make everything scale off STR at first eg. Clemency, Equilibrium, etc... They could have made them scale off VIT right from the beginning but they didn\\'t.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It would again mean having a whole stat (VIT) be ignored by a large portion of the community. In progression content, many VIT tanks were looked down on because STR was simply better. What you\\'re demanding is, ironically, SE be lazy and ignore all the aforementioned because you\\'re unwilling to adjust to slightly lower DPS.

Parry is a stat being totally ignored but what have they done about that? It took until 3.2 for PLD to get some decent changes. SE is lazy.
03-20-2016, 05:06 AM
whythehate

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViDare

This comment irks me because it is completely not the same thing. No other class had the option to swap accessories like tanks did. If a DRG/BRD/Caster wore VIT accessories (outside of maybe PVP) they would be shunned or if any DPS decided to use an accessory that wasn't their jobs main stat. All classes had the option to meld crafted accessories and they still do but now tanks need to depend on their main stat just like every other class needs to.

I think pre 3.0 pld also could meld dexterity, since it effected either paladins block rate or parry I can't remember.

Paladin had like 3 potential builds.

I agree though, a lot better bit actually has a use now
03-20-2016, 08:07 AM
Ultimatecalibur

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerahFarron

Wrong, if STR tanking was never intended then why did they make everything scale off STR at first eg. Clemency, Equilibrium, etc... They could have made them scale off VIT right from the beginning but they didn\\'t.

Because having Str influence Physical melee attack power, Dex influence Physical ranged attack power, Int influence Magical attack power and Mind/Wis/Spirit influence Healing power is a standard design trope/sacred cow that is 42 years old and hard to get away from.

Clemency, Equilibrium and Second Wind all scale off Attack Power instead of Healing Magic Potency or Attack Magic Potency because that is what actually scales with gear for the classes with access to it. If they didn't they would be as useless as Cure and Physic are as Crossclass skills.

Quote:

Parry is a stat being totally ignored but what have they done about that? It took until 3.2 for PLD to get some decent changes. SE is lazy.

Parry is a stat whose effect is heavily dependent on fight design. SE is trying to be careful and the PLD changes came in 3.2 because the problems were from a variety things.
03-20-2016, 08:38 AM
Dzian

1.23 probably still my favorite patches. to kill a raven and nevermore. I really liked the way the story was going. and the level of difficulty. which sadly took a nose dive in 2.0.
03-20-2016, 11:53 AM
Aarik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemuria

To be fair, calling it a nerf depends entirely on your point of view. For players who equipped actual tank gear, they would've seen a marked increase on their damage. Their reasoning behind the patch actually made a lot of sense, because there were a LOT of tanks who were forgoing defense in favour of pure attack, which was upsetting over-stretched healers (myself included on occasion), and rendering actual tank equipment redundant.

Now, I do agree that they needed to put a bit more thought behind it and perhaps make adjustments accordingly to keep things at a level, but calling it an outright nerf isn't exactly accurate.

That part about people who equipped actual tank gear having gained damage is actually false, just fyi. I had all fending gear (exact same, at that) before and after the patch, and after I was doing less damage, though admittedly it wasn't by too much; typically 100 damage less on things like Royal Authority. But yeah....even for tanks that went full VIT, it was a damage nerf. This is because of the latent strength stat of the class itself.
03-20-2016, 12:38 PM
Jim_Berry

My NIN became stronger in 3.2!

Seems like my damage stayed the same in all the previous patches.
03-20-2016, 02:20 PM
Bourne_Endeavor

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerahFarron

I already pointed that out, I don\\'t know why you just repeated what I said.

No, you claimed Elysium still uses STR accessories, which I actually missed until now. Layla Bell went full VIT the moment 3.2 launched. As did all their other tanks. So that statement was flat out wrong.

Quote:

Wrong, if STR tanking was never intended then why did they make everything scale off STR at first eg. Clemency, Equilibrium, etc... They could have made them scale off VIT right from the beginning but they didn\\'t.

Because those attacks are meant to scale to attribute some degree of RNG to their potency. Scaling them off VIT would mean they have set, predictable effects. Nevertheless, considering SE has not only admitted they never anticipated STR tanking a thing and have gone to such measures to eliminate it... well, I'm inclined to believe them.

Quote:

Parry is a stat being totally ignored but what have they done about that? It took until 3.2 for PLD to get some decent changes. SE is lazy.

Parry is useless, yes. But changing it so you could continue being a STR tank would be lazy for the reasons I've said earlier. PLD only notably suffered in 3.0 because their focus had been on the new jobs. Contrary to people's whining about PLD and MNK, both were in the first clear party for Gordias.
03-20-2016, 02:37 PM
TheCurls

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerahFarron

Stuff...

The reason why tanks are doing less damage overall across the board is that before 3.2, they were encroaching on DPS levels of dps. A tank's job is to tank and let the DPS do the killing. Want to see big numbers? Play a DPS.
03-20-2016, 03:00 PM
SerahFarron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

No, you claimed Elysium still uses STR accessories, which I actually missed until now. Layla Bell went full VIT the moment 3.2 launched. As did all their other tanks. So that statement was flat out wrong.

I won't bother replying to you anymore since you obviously can't read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerahFarron

You don't see Elysium's tanks in full VIT in savage pre 3.2 for a reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCurls

The reason why tanks are doing less damage overall across the board is that before 3.2, they were encroaching on DPS levels of dps. A tank's job is to tank and let the DPS do the killing. Want to see big numbers? Play a DPS.

Nope, tanks were reaching DPS levels of BAD DPS. Good DPS still had 300-400 DPS more than WARs which is consistent with BCOB-FCOB levels of DPS. The real reason why tanks were nerfed is because Gordias Savage had the highest DPS checks of any raid so far that had been released. Bad DPS struggled to meet those high DPS checks so they lowered them in Midas and tanks got punished with a nerf because DPS are the majority in this game and most are bad. SE knew how high WARs would be able to hit with a 500 potency attack in 3.0-3.1, they aren't stupid they made the game, they can calculate all that stuff. They gave us these cool abilities that hit hard for 2 major patches and then took it away. That's why I'm pissed off. Instead of going about it some other way they took the lazy way out as usual. It's the sad truth. SSS was specifically introduced for DPS so they could git gud, which won't happen anyway cause of "it's my $15 I play how I want" attitude.

I would rather not give my money to a team led by a liar. Yoshi seemed like a cool guy at first but now I see his true colors. Some will notice it faster than others eg. "Personal housing will be more more affordable" how did that end up turning out again? In 4.0 we will either see some major changes to the formula or the same thing. If its in the case of the latter then you can bet this game will be on its way downhill. With the PS3 being discontinued there will be no excuse left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCurls

A tank's job is to tank and let the DPS do the killing. Want to see big numbers? Play a DPS.

I already said that I don't want to play as a DPS so instead I quit entirely.
With that logic than healers should just heal right? Not the case. Healers can do more AoE damage than tanks can now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemuria

Sure, but it does increase HP, which gives tanks a lot more breathing room against cleaves. The problem was there were a lot of tanks going with full strength accessories (I mean belt, rings, neck, the works), and some of these tanks barely had enough HP to survive these attacks.

Granted, it falls on the player at the end of the day, but the mechanics weren't exactly helping things along. Players needed a reason to WANT to equip vitality gear, and SE gave them one. Perhaps not the best implementation of it, but you can't blame them for at least trying.

The whole point was to have enough HP to survive the tank buster. Any excess HP was a waste because you could be doing more damage instead of having extra HP that does nothing for you. Anyone who mains a tank role for as long as I have knows this. If the healer knows what he is doing then they would also be prepared with a pre casted heal. If as a healer you struggle to keep the tank topped off during a raid well that's your fault since you don't know the fight well enough to know when big hits are coming.
03-20-2016, 03:58 PM
Alberel

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerahFarron

I already said that I don't want to play as a DPS so instead I quit entirely.
With that logic than healers should just heal right? Not the case. Healers can do more AoE damage than tanks can now.

Given the direction tank DPS was going pre 3.2 what would be the point in DPS jobs even existing? Tanks were getting closer and closer to pure DPS numbers. If SE hadn't done something DPS jobs would have soon been all but redundant.

Tanks NEEDED to have their damage entirely gutted; it was a mistake to have ever let them do so much damage in the first place. As for healers, I expect we'll see their damage output throttled as well if they start pushing too high. DPS jobs exist to do damage only and so for them to have any relevance mechanically the other roles simply must not come anywhere close to those numbers. It's the fundamental basis of the 'holy trinity'. If you truly thought you'd get to continue to play both tank and dps as one job as you had thus far then you clearly don't understand how trinity based MMOs work.

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