Self-Destructing Community?

Only thing I have to add to this: Pretty much anything beyond two people is going to have some form of toxicity, small as it sometimes is (and large too). Pretty sure that if Candy Crush, for example, has some sorta chat feature you'd see plenty there as well and thats supposed to be rather casual to my understanding.

By the same token you'll also get niceness that goes beyond what you would expect even without expecting toxicity from everyone you meet. Roll of the dice and all that.

When there are new people in the new content, I think the best thing to do is to ask if they want stuff to be explained or if they want to go in blind (although I also think it's ok to just see if they ask for advice and not say anything if not). What I've done is explaining how some of the stuff works after we've cleared the fight. If you want everyone to know what's going on to just farm the content, make a farm party in PF (it's much faster in all ways).

back in the day when mmo's first came out you think we had video guids to show us everything before we even ran it once, no we didn't the internet was new and MMO just came out at the time "EverQuest" This generation is spoiled beyond belief and they think everything should be done for them. Just like you see 5 and 6 years walking around with I-phone 6's and I-Pads. If you saw a guid on you tube then technically you didn't clear anything some one did it for you.

I feel like people are talking about two different types of people here. There are the people that want to go in blind and learn as they go for their first time, which is great. It's fun to figure things out on your own, and a totally reasonable thing to do this close to patch day.

But when you don't know anything about the fight and go into it expecting everyone else to explain it to you right off the bat; well in that case you probably should have looked up the fight first / read a guide / watched a video. Not only is it a massive waste of time which could be spent learning/clearing the new fights, but it can ruin it for the other people who want to run it first without being told what to expect.

EDIT: I want to believe that the 'watch a video' comment was directed more towards the second type of person rather than the first. At least I hope it was lol.

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Originally Posted by Sax

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What most of us are saying is there is nothing wrong with asking for tips if you're at least polite about it. Obviously, joining in things like EX primals and savage raids in the hopes of being taught on the fly is a major taboo, but most won't see a problem with newbies asking for a quick heads up in the easier content since the steps are simple and quick to explain in a few lines and 2 minutes. Like I said before, people who do speak up and ask for tips are usually the ones that are willing to learn and learn from their mistakes. Those that don't say anything tend to cause wipes. If you don't want to be teaching people during your daily EX roulette/Midas run, then DF is gonna drive you nuts.

So I tried A5 in DF the 2nd day it was out. The majority of the group was new. We kept wiping at the same part, and nobody was talking to try to figure it out. If I try it and can't figure out what I am dying to, I will either ask what is happening, or when the duty is over, as in the case I'm talking about, then I will look for a guide. But I am going to try it at least once or twice before I give in. Sepherot, 8 new guys in DF. 3 wipes, talked every wipe, then we cleared it.

Now I'm dreading the day when I run out of story quests...

Going to do Midas normal for the first time today cuz I've been busy with work and haven't had time to do much beyond daily experts. I might be able to get a full FC group, but it's likely that we'll have to DF one or two people, and so help me god if they launch into an unwanted explanation of the fights while I'm still watching the frickin' cutscenes I will be pretty upset. I like to observe and learn as I go along. Even for super-old content I still don't offer explanations to new players unless they ask.

If you want to go in blind and learn it on your own put it up on pf. On df you never know what you'll get either way because we ain't Japan. I can understand the frustration on both sides of the argument. This 'self-destructing community' is how it's been at least since Titan HM anyway.

EDIT: And if you go in expecting that people will tell you how to do it, why don't you just read a guide? It's essentially the same and now you're switching the burden of you learning on the person forced to teach you. If I deliberately wanted to explain some fight I would make A GUIDE for it.

I'm going to generalize a bit and say that this is an issue I only really see from players on mega-servers like Balmung or Gilgamesh, where you rarely see newer players because they're so hard to get into. Being essentially closed to newbies (unless you buy a transfer) has created a mentality of elitism that I find regrettable, especially since I only play in casual content and thats where I've encountered the majority of the unwarranted self-aggrandizement! The actual hardcore raiders I've hung out with were all pretty cool guys who don't put up with toxicity at all, since it's a fun killer.