Other games did raiding right other then World of Warcraft.
Look at SWTOR. While the game is not very good, its raiding now as well as its story is 100x better then FF14, sorry. I guess you could say I am used to raids taking more time and actually requiring trash clears that can drop raid equiv. loot.
Will I go into Alex savage? No honestly because its not really a raid. Its 1-2 trash pulls and then one boss and then you are done. However if it was on par with Ulduar or ICC you bet.
I know some will not agree with this thread but that is just how I feel. I come from games where raiding took time, effort, and was challenging.
If a group has Alex Savage on 100% complete farm you effectively can run the whole thing in one night with putting around 1-2 hours in MAX. No raid I have ever done in any other MMORPG was ever completed in an hour or two besides that stupid raid right before ICC. When that was completed we had other end game stuff we could do.
My thinking about Alex normal/savage. Issue IMHO inside
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10-03-2015, 01:59 AMMadjames
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10-03-2015, 02:04 AMColorfulI don't know how it is now, but on launch the raiding with SWTOR was pathetic at best, that's not saying FFXIV is any better. Wildstar has the best raids and world design bar none, if only Blizzard or SE snatched up their team instead of hiring from inside. I also found SWTOR's story incredibly boring, but then again I find Star Wars boring. The cutscene system, choices, and voice acting are all significantly better than FFXIV but that's understandable. Yoshida and the team didn't have $200,000,000 to just blow after the disaster that was 1.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
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10-03-2015, 02:05 AMMadjamesThe first raid was crap in SWTOR. I got through the entire regular mode in 3 hours the very first run through with my guild. However, the Palace and raiding since then has improved a whole lot. Star Wars is sci-fi and I left due to it going F2P and the game just being bland. However to me, the Imperial Agents story was the best story I have been through in a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
I have not nor will I try wildstar. Not interested at all. Ill stick with FF14 and hope the end game scene gets better. -
10-03-2015, 02:13 AMNirokenWhat would stop people from just farming trash for raid gear?Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
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10-03-2015, 02:15 AMAshkendorIf your idea of "better" is "takes hours and hours to run" you're going to be waiting awhile. This is a theme park MMO, meaning the experience tends to be broad but shallow. There's a wide variety of things to do, but none of them has much in the way of depth. I honestly kind of like the "bite sized" raid design the way it's done now. We get one raid that's split into four very manageable parts. It's nice during progression, because it allows you to effectively "save" your progress if you have limited time per raid session. Get past A1, don't have to do it again till next week and you can practice on A2. I'd rather it be set up that way than to have to deal with getting past A1 every time my static sits down to raid for awhile. If you can progress faster, that's still an option too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
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10-03-2015, 02:47 AMMadjamesWrong here sorry. World of warcraft's raids have 13-15 bosses per raid. Once you get past the first boss it saves that progress. Then you move onto the next raid boss. The raids are huge, and very fun (Looking at you Ulduar and ICC). Those raids were not shallow and crap. They were the best raiding experience I have ever had. The same is said for SWTOR raids as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
The trash mobs in WOTLK had a Low low % chance to drop raid gear, rare crafting materials, mount parts, and other stuff. You did NOT see it every week you raided, you were lucky to see it one piece every other week if that. The chance is their though that is what makes trash mobs in raids needed and acceptable because of that chance. Some in Ulduar also had a chance of dropping pieces for a mount. If you acquired all of the pieces you could build a motorbike. Again though they were a very low drop rate's. Also when you cleared the trash the first time it would not reset until the whole raid reset once a week. So if the low low drop rate didn't drop anything that week then that was it, you waited for those low drop chance gear/materials until the next week when the raid bosses and trash reset. It was just a little something extra to have a chance at getting stuff is all.
The end game scene in this game sadly needs to be reworked. The raids are shallow. I do not even consider them raids. Four bosses to me is not acceptable when other games offer raids that have 13-15 raid bosses per raid. Why would you be ok with less content to do, when other games offer 10x the content for the same price as the game you are currently playing? -
10-03-2015, 02:57 AMAshkendorBecause raiding isn't all that many of us do. I'm fine with the setup. I'm sorry that you aren't. The endgame raiding community makes up a very small portion of the playerbase and of those people, only a fraction play the game only for the raids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
That's not saying I like Alexander. I find the story and the fights pretty lackluster overall so far (though I've heard A3S is the most fun one, so we'll see how that goes). I think that Coil was a far better raid both for lore and for engaging encounters, though. -
10-03-2015, 03:04 AMMadjamesRaiding is not all anyone in this game does, me included. However, Raids are here. I am a veteran raider. Alex is sadly not anywhere near as beautiful and thought out as Ulduar for example. The issue is that raiding at end game is the Main focus in this game. If it was not then the best gear imaginable would not be available by only raiding. When people hit end game they raid and grind for gear, its that simple. The raids should be rewarding, challenging, time consuming, and above all fun. I am not saying a raid should take 7 days to complete but on farm, it should take more then 1-2 hours at most to clear unlike alex now that takes 1-2 hours on savage mode if you have it on full farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
No one has given me any good example on why raids should not have more time and effort put into them unlike now. Now Alex looks like a slapped together raid that took roughly a day or 2 max to create. Ulduar on the other hand took a lot longer then that because it had more things to do inside it and more stuff to see (14 bosses compared to alex 4. Dozens of trash mobes compared to alex's 1) -
10-03-2015, 03:27 AMAshkendorIt... doesn't look like you raid at all. Unless this is an alt? I dunno, I find it hard to take this thread seriously when it doesn't even seem like you've given the endgame content a fair try. Sorry, but Alexander Normal isn't anything even remotely resembling endgame. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
I miss Coil. I'm going to go glamour farm the crap out of it sometime soon. -
10-03-2015, 03:36 AMMadjamesI have raided heroic 10/25 man content as well as normal mode 10/25 in more raids then I can count in other MMORPG's. The problem with this games raiding is that either you raid the way easy stuff or raid the brick wall difficulty which is on par with Heroic mode 10/25 man heroic raids back in WOTLK days of wow. I will not go and bang my head against a wall to do a raid that has only 4 bosses + 1 trash pull, that is not a raid nor is it worth the effort. Sadly normal mode is raiding and is considered end game progression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
I have said other times that the raiding needs to be overhauled. Wow's raiding did it right.
raid finder (easy as alex normal)
10 man regular (not as hard as savage mode alex but significantly more difficult then raid finder.)
10 man heroic (harder then the other 2 listed)
25 man worked the same way
Having only 2 extremes is not a good policy and there needs to be a third difficulty which is the raid I would go to if it was offered. This difficulty being between alex normal and alex savage.
This is my main and my Ilevel is 180. I have seen all the end game raiding this game has to offer in game, on youtube, and research as well as comparing it to my 18 years of MMORPG playing. With all of that in mind, I think I have enough knowledge to gauge how lacking the raiding content in this game is compared to other products on the market.
This game has the potential to be a good all around game (even raiding). The issue is that SE just needs to start making their raids more memorable, time consuming, difficult, and over all fun. I mention Ulduar because it was designed perfectly and was open to many different people (Some for more difficult fights, some for not so difficult but it was how you wanted to play) . You could not clear Ulduar heroic 10 man in one night of raiding, not even on farm unless you spent a good portion of the evening/night time doing it and when that was done you had 10 man regular to do as well as 25 regular/heroic mode to go through as well if you so choose.
I see no reason why SE should not be held to the same standard as other developers when it comes to making end game content. Asking for more content to do that is both more rewarding and time consuming is not a bad request. It would give everyone at end game something to do. I see no issue with asking SE to be held on the same standard that other MMORPGs on the market right now are doing that are F2P. It is kinda sad when a F2P game is pushing out more end game content that is both more rewarding, has multiple difficulty levels, as well as very large raids compared to a subscription. I find it sad that SE's raid size is effectively the size of one hallway and one room when compared with other raids on the market from F2P games that have multiple hallways and rooms divided over a huge castle.