DF Penalty

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

The context is you're holding the group hostage. If you don't have the patience to deal with less adept party members, then don't do roulettes. There's other ways of leveling if you don't want to help others.

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I see some mention the healer is holding the group hostage. But on the other hand, if the group's that bad and refuse to abandon, aren't they holding the healer hostage in some kind of "nightmare" also? You can say it all you want but there are always 2 sides on one coin.

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Originally Posted by Normalizer

I see some mention the healer is holding the group hostage. But on the other hand, if the group's that bad and refuse to abandon, aren't they holding the healer hostage in some kind of "nightmare" also? You can say it all you want but there are always 2 sides on one coin.

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No one held hostage or have to deal with a nightmare, they can either try to deal with or leave the party.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Not really you rather be stubborn and risk getting suspended/ban from the whole game then take a 30 minute penalty from just a dungeon and still be able to play the rest of the game.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

No one held hostage or have to deal with a nightmare, they can either try to deal with or leave the party.

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Which, come back to OP post, being "punished" for doing nothing wrong :)

meh, if I end up in a DF I dont want to do or is going bad I'll leave and take the 30 minute penalty unless someone else does first. rather take a 30 minute hit than deal with some hassles

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Originally Posted by Normalizer

I see some mention the healer is holding the group hostage. But on the other hand, if the group's that bad and refuse to abandon, aren't they holding the healer hostage in some kind of "nightmare" also? You can say it all you want but there are always 2 sides on one coin.

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If the team doesn't want to abandon, that's them wanting to continue. If one person wants to call it quits and three that want to keep going, I don't really see how that's not fair.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

I can reverse that argument just as easily. If you\\'re not good at your class, maybe you should queue with friends or FC mates and get personal help instead of causing others to have to deal with it. And don\\'t give me that "But there are people who have no friends". This is an MMO. Massive MULTIPLAYER online. It\\'s expected that you at least socialize and get connections in game and not do the whole thing by yourself.

The roulette is Duty Roulette: Leveling. Not Duty Roulette: Teach the incompetent how to play their jobs. So don\\'t tell me what the roulette is for.



And I consider sticking around, giving tips to people for 5+ wipes plenty of patience. It\\'d be one thing if I left immediately after like one failure. But spending 15+ minutes on one boss? With no advancement? Wiping at the same % each time? Yeah, no. You can only help people so much in a dungeon.

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When the roulette was implemented, it was stated that it was for helping others. You can always go do FATEs or temple leves. Those are much faster and less hassle than the leveling roulette anyway.

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Originally Posted by Normalizer

Which, come back to OP post, being "punished" for doing nothing wrong :)

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There are times where a party is extremely bad yes but for the most part usually not the case. Been in a lot of less then ideal parties but none where I was like this going to longer then what the 30 minute lock would be.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

I don\\'t really see how that\\'s not fair.

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Then let that person have an opt out without a penalty.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That\\'s what these dead end groups are, insane. Any normal person would be insane to want to continue to bang their head on a wall over and over again.

And don\\'t say "well you could help them get better" because I\\'ve tried that. I\\'ve given people a whole rotation to do before (I\\'ve had too many "spam flash and RIOT blade paladins" that continue to lose hate, or " blizzard only " BLMs that cause failures of DPS checks).

It\\'s one thing if the dungeon run is just going slow. As long as progress is made. I\\'ll complain internally but won\\'t try to leave until it\\'s apparent that the group isn\\'t getting anywhere regardless of how hard they try. If you fail to see that then you\\'re asinine.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Then let that person have an opt out without a penalty.


Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That\\'s what these dead end groups are, insane. Any normal person would be insane to want to continue to bang their head on a wall over and over again.

And don\\'t say "well you could help them get better" because I\\'ve tried that. I\\'ve given people a whole rotation to do before (I\\'ve had too many "spam flash and RIOT blade paladins" that continue to lose hate, or " blizzard only " BLMs that cause failures of DPS checks).

It\\'s one thing if the dungeon run is just going slow. As long as progress is made. I\\'ll complain internally but won\\'t try to leave until it\\'s apparent that the group isn\\'t getting anywhere regardless of how hard they try. If you fail to see that then you\\'re asinine.

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I can kinda see where you're coming from, but the alternative is those with short queue times abandoning any group at the slightest hint of trouble. I'd definitely consider the current system the lesser of two evils.

Also on a side note, what's with all the back-slashes in your posts? Does it mean something?

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Then let that person have an opt out without a penalty.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That\\'s what these dead end groups are, insane. Any normal person would be insane to want to continue to bang their head on a wall over and over again.

And don\\'t say "well you could help them get better" because I\\'ve tried that. I\\'ve given people a whole rotation to do before (I\\'ve had too many "spam flash and RIOT blade paladins" that continue to lose hate, or " blizzard only " BLMs that cause failures of DPS checks).

It\\'s one thing if the dungeon run is just going slow. As long as progress is made. I\\'ll complain internally but won\\'t try to leave until it\\'s apparent that the group isn\\'t getting anywhere regardless of how hard they try. If you fail to see that then you\\'re asinine.

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Lets remember why there a 30 minute penalty it cause it didn't use to be there and people abused being able to pop in and out of dungeons with no penalty of what they considered bad parties or a dungeon they didn't want to run. Thank all those people for you being "punished"

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

I usually just sit there then. I'm the healer, they can't really proceed without me.

They can either agree to vote abandon or kick me. A bad group is a bad group.

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See, I love it when healers (and tanks) do this. Most players have something other than FFXIV that they would like to do at any given time, so, every time this has happened in a DF I'm in, I've managed to convince the entire rest of the party to AFK with the healer and do that something else for a while. I also tell them to keep a loose eye on the screen in case progression can continue due to the healer getting over themselves, which has happened a few times. Usually, though, the healer comes back within 10 minutes, sees that they haven't been kicked and that we're all AFKing alongside them, and starts to rage all over chat.

At that point, the healer has two choices: sit there until time runs out, or leave and eat LESS of a penalty. A fair few of them try to call the bluff and actually do sit there until time runs out, the poor saps. The rest of them leave, having wasted an additional 10 or so minutes atop of their now 30-minute queue lock.

I get a perverse enjoyment from poking at people's egos. Poetic justice is sweet justice.
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Anyway, snark aside, I see your point about being punished as the one who has done nothing wrong. When you're the only one fulfilling their class role, it can suck having to suck it up and take one for the team you've come to lose all respect for.

But here's the fact of the matter: at least 2 people aside from yourself decided that the dungeon was worth continuing; the vote to abandon would have passed, otherwise. That means that it is not the majority of the group that thinks the dungeon insurmountable in current conditions. You can ask to be kicked, but you might be denied. At that point, you can choose to leave. If you do, you are not punished for doing something wrong in the dungeon, but are punished for leaving a group in progress that was not disbanding, which you did.

The system is working as intended.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

Also on a side note, what's with all the back-slashes in your posts? Does it mean something?

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I've been noticing this, too. It's similar to an escape character in programming or web design - note how they're all before apostrophes. I wonder if he/she's a programmer and it's some sort of habit.