To all the flames on primal datacenter...

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Originally Posted by EddardStark

Actually, it is true. A quick check of the leader board at the end of the match rarely shows 8+ from the same server excluding Ultros. Confirmed by many of the players in kenka, the main ultros pvp ls. I didn't say others don't exist from time to time but ultros currently has the most active full premade parties.

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Levi has a good amount, I think, but if you're talking just Flames then that would make sense (most Levi premades are Adders, though a few are Mael/Flames).

Rolling a premade doesn't count for nearly as much as it did for Slaughter, though, because Slaughter forced your entire 24 to converge where that premade of 8 could dish a lot of damage/deliver a lot of support, but in Seize if you have those same 8 or 10 people who go wherever they think easy meat is it's harder for even a premade to defend points. My group does the best we can, but when it's 10 against 24 and they know to zerg your healers first it's ehhhhhh.

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Originally Posted by Renewhm

I've been playing since slaughter and we've always been competitive, but we have also had an over-saturation of poor performance players and newbs just getting into pvp, but now we have eso farmers as well. That's definitely why queues are so fast for us. We have the most noobs still flooding pvp and a lot of eso farmers.

We're competitive, too, but we have a lot more new players than the other 2 GCs. Every week I'm around 40% win ratio and that's solid for not having many healers and mostly melee dps.

MAel and adder on any given game will do the same shit as our poor pug groups if they don't have premades.

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I agree. My win rate has averaged at around 35-40% as well, and I pretty much only play with PIGs... er... I mean PUGs. Even my overall stats are almost evenly split between 1st/2nd/and 3rd place wins. There's barely a difference, which is why I said there's not one GC that stands out to me as being consistently smarter when they play.

That being said, sometimes getting the Flames to work as a team is like pulling teeth. If there's not at least one or two people trying to lead the senseless mass of people then they just run around like headless chickens. Besides Eso farmers, I'd say that the biggest issue for stupid performances is when you get people with poor attitudes being louder than the people trying to lead the team to victory. If you decide you've lost a match before it's even started, and you convince the entire team that's the way it's gonna be, then you're just gonna prove yourself right. I mean, how do you expect to win when you don't even try?

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Collectively, I've seen flames throw more games when they've had a good lead than mael or even when I'm queuing with adders. Granted we do have our fair share games where we've never broken 200 points, but those are typically attributed to north spawn and opportunistic captures (against our favor), I can count maybe 1 time that we've essentially thrown a game with a good lead...and that's typically toward mael.

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Like I said, it's a perspective thing, because, collectively, I've seen the Adders throw way more matches than I've noticed the Flames throwing, and, as you said, usually in favour of Mael. Usually, when I see it, it can be attributed to their tendency to consistently attack either the 2nd or 3rd place team, going for the safe pincers rather than picking a fight with the stronger team that's in the lead.It has almost nothing to do with spawn locations, unless it's one of those "lucky" games where at least two nodes are almost stacked on one another, forcing two specific GC's to fight one another the entire match (at that point I don't think anyone can be blamed for tunnel vision... except maybe RNGsus and SE). Speaking strictly off of personal stats, I average a 35-40% win rate and end the week with an almost even split. So, no matter how much Flames PuG's can drive me crazy sometimes, I can't honestly say that they've been preforming any worse than either of the other GC's due to stupid behaviour.

Eso farming and casual pvp'ers have been a problem for everyone lately. I've heard people complaining about Bot's int he early parts of the week that just mount up and run in a straight line until they die... which is one of the many reasons I wish they'd just kill Eso bonus from PvP. It's time they stop rewarding PvE'ers for playing PvP and start rewarding the PvP'ers. The second place mentality is an issue too, sometimes. Though, honestly, I count myself lucky when I get a team that is at least willing to put that much effort in. Lately there seems to be an endless supply of "oh, we're not gonna win anyway so lets just sit around and pick our noses... or do whatever... maybe fight that group over there that completely outnumbers us and has no node..." Etc. It's awful, and I've seen it start from as little as 100 pts down from the next placed team. It leads me to assume that it's also a "casual PvP" problem, because a real PvP'er knows that you can come back from that kind of thing. Yet, lately, there's always some twat in the group that wants to convince the entire team to not even bother to try.

It doesn't happen in the matches I'm in. I see both flames, adder and mael tunnel visioning. Its not just flames. Players from all three GCs suffer from it.

As people already pointed out, there is no "alliance" between GCs; some people here just like to play the victim card and rationalize getting sandwiched by saying "the other 2 GCs hate us" instead of taking into consideration how the tomeliths spawned and what your teammates were doing to potentially draw attention of both GCs to yours.

Reading some replies here from players on the other 2 GCs (Adders and Flames) in primal who feel like their opposing GCs are out to get them is very amusing. All 3 GCs are prone to get double-teamed if tomeliths all spawn in their backyard, especially if they're higher ranks and/or that GC is in the lead. Heck, if the other 2 GCs are fighting, it is in your teams' best interest to pick one to sandwich. Unfortunately, many times with DF players; they are either too lazy (GC A is closer to us even though GC B is winning by 200 points) or shortsighted to pick the right GC to double-team.

And that's why I had to chuckle a bit at Februs' example of Maelstrom tunnel-visioning Flames when Adders are clearly a bigger threat. It happens all the time. Even the other way around equally as much. I'll be one of those doing my best to tell people to stop chasing the 3rd place team, but many players lack the awareness to even bother looking at the map and score (or chat log) and stay absorbed with the enemies infront of them. Heck, maybe they're too proud to "retreat?" In any case, I've noticed that Maelstrom DF players have a terrible habbit of staying on one GC the whole match (often times the 3rd place team (2nd place if we're losing)) simply because they haven't backed-off either or get cocky enough to chase them when they do back-off. Trust me, if I could grab these people by the ears to drag them out of pointless fights, I would. Might even be filthy casuals who give a damn about winning and just want their Slaughterhouse achievements whilst getting marks for their free red-glowy weapon. Or maybe it really is just grudges as to why people don't ever let up on a GC.



tldr; confirmation bias, inattentive players, selective memory (choose not to recall when their team have been a part of a double team), bitter players with a grudge, tomelith spawns forcing sandwiching.

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Originally Posted by Tokyozombie

that's not true Behemoth does premade's everyday they just don't announce themselves as a premade like ultros does.

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And those are Adders premades, Tokyo. We know. The Clean Up Crew is well aware of their presence and we sort of have a rivalry thing with them. We have destroyed them many games as they have us many a game.

Also, yes I play in the PvP linkshell Kenka! on Ultros in the Clean Up Crew and I vouch for evrything Eddard Stark is saying, essentially. A few things to hasten that conclusion.
http://imgur.com/a/XwqqN

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Originally Posted by Cidel

As people already pointed out, there is no "alliance" between GCs; some people here just like to play the victim card and rationalize getting sandwiched by saying "the other 2 GCs hate us" instead of taking into consideration how the tomeliths spawned and what your teammates were doing to potentially draw attention of both GCs to yours.
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tldr; confirmation bias, inattentive players, selective memory (choose not to recall when their team have been a part of a double team), bitter players with a grudge, tomelith spawns forcing sandwiching.

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Exactly right.

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Originally Posted by MrAdog34

Also, yes I play in the PvP linkshell Kenka! on Ultros in the Clean Up Crew and I vouch for evrything Eddard Stark is saying, essentially. A few things to hasten that conclusion.
http://imgur.com/a/XwqqN

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I enjoyed that your "main class" is Gladiator, but in those screen captures you ran as SMN x4 and the one time you ran as a tank it was DRK lol.

I know, I know. PLD's do modest dmg, and I have no problem with the way they handle in PvE. My only problem with that class as it is, is their absolutely absurd Tp consumption (SE, TY for giving DRK's Tp regen, but leaving PLD's out in the cold... allow me to give you a nice slow clap -_-;).

Seriously though, how much more proof does SE need that PLD's dmg output is total Bullsh** and chips? Sword oath is practically useless in PvP because no one stands around long enough to let auto attacks really connect. I know PLD's can solo dps just fine, but, lets be honest, sometimes it seems like they might as well not have a sword, just a shield so they can run around and give people a spanking.

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Originally Posted by Februs

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Dunno what you're on about, the tools are right there for PLD's TP management: Enliven, icarus wings, regain feathers. Never have an issue even sprinting all over the place.

The autoattack thing is definitely false, it's just most people play Legacy controls and run all over the place. Standard ftw. Doesn't hurt to autolock either when you need it.