But this game DOES have support for trans people - Fantasia allows you to change your character's sex/gender. What it doesn't have is support for non-binary people, but that's something different. Many (if not most) of us transwomen, post transition, don't want to be seen as transwomen, we want to be seen as women, and that's what Fantasia allows. Personally speaking, as someone in the middle of a transition and thus obviously non-binary, I'm not comfortable being non-binary. I'm just as uncomfortable with being seen as non-binary as I was being seen as male. But, when people see and/or treat me like they would any other woman, it's the best thing ever. Being trans and being binary are not opposites at all. Being non-binary and being trans are certainly not synonyms, though trans people are forced to express and be seen as non-binary during their transition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
Yes, it'd be more realistic if Fantasia worked gradually over 2-6 years, but realism isn't what most people are looking for from a fantasy game. We're looking for fantasies, and instant sex/gender change for $5 is a really nice trans-person fantasy.
Oh, and speaking of trans and its presentation in this game: the boss of T9 is a transman, not a transwoman, and male pronouns are more appropriate when referring to him. His physical transformation wasn't his choice, and there's no indication given that he identifies differently due to it. Unless I missed some dialogue somewhere! And having a character in the game who is a man stuck in a woman's body (quite literally) is great for the Japanese audience - in modern Japanese culture, transmen are far more common than transwomen (I believe the opposite is true in the US).
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying that being non-binary is bad or anything - it's a totally valid gender expression if it's for you! And I'm not saying that the complete lack of non-binary characters in any modern media is okay (most people don't even know what that word means). I'm just saying that being trans and being non-binary are not the same.
Also, who's to say that any random NPC (like, say, Alphinaud) wasn't born as the other gender but used a fantasia at some point in their life? Their past sex/gender history really isn't any of the Warrior of Light's business. Even though the Warrior of Light could look into it with the power of the Echo, that would be a massive violation of their privacy!
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08-21-2015, 02:38 AMNyalia
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08-21-2015, 04:52 AMDarkStaoneDragonQuote:
Originally Posted by Fersaken
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Originally Posted by Kelg
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Originally Posted by Kelg
I wish I could give this post's more likes. -
08-21-2015, 05:29 AMDarkStaoneDragon
Can we just play the game without having this kind of stuff in the game. I mean ITS A GAME. Just because you show your "pride" isn't going to make a change in the REAL world so why post it here? Please Stop I don't want FF 14 known as a the "LGBT" game. I just want to play the game, post on the forums without all of this.
I remember a thread about a person wanting everyone to wear pink to show support for breast cancer survivors, and one that lost their lives to it. Guess what? They was told "Don't bring your real life problems into the game" same same should go for this. If your LGBT good for you, I really don't need to see it, dang-it I see and hear it enough on tv,news sites, some music. I play FF 14 to get away from real world problems and relax and I thank SE for making this wonderful game, but can we stop with the "LGBT" stuff? There are bars,
websites and clubs to support you please don't use FF 14 for this. Let's keep the "real life" problems in the real world an not in a game please, btw I used the term "real world" in my post because this isn't like the cancer post. -
08-21-2015, 07:25 AMAnnahExactlyExactly! I'm the same way with those straight folks. I have nothing against straight people but the whole attention seeking thing bothers me too! Straight people with their hand holding...kissing. I mean, double yuck! I live in the US which is suppose to be the least accepting nations, and no one gives a damn whether you are straight or not. People need to stop shoving their sex life in others faces, it's getting pretty damn ridiculous when I have to see this straight crap on FFXIV forums, on tv or even in real life public!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelg
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08-21-2015, 07:28 AMAnnah/plays violin song for your tears and rubs your backQuote:
Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon
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08-21-2015, 07:35 AMKaurie
Eh, I don't see this thread as attention seeking for Pride. He made a video over a year ago and then Yoshi saw it and he met Yoshi.
This is a letter to show that he made a follow up and to thank Yoshi for his support.
He's not trying to throw his agenda down everyone's throat, he even said that he meant it to be low key. I for one think his story is pretty cool and inspirational. It's awesome to see how something that you perceive as small can become big and reach the other side of the world. -
08-21-2015, 07:46 AMDraxxion
Thank you OP for the wonderful post. It is obvious this has gone from passing on your praise to the developers to a full blown discussion about the gay community more as a whole (which these topics often do), but cheer up. You have friends and an amazing community on Gilgamesh that supports each other all the way!
On that note a bit bummed I didn't know it was going to happen or I would have joined in. Love the parades when I see them. -
08-21-2015, 11:03 AMSamcaesarMassive text block in the box, it got kinda big and it feels odd talking about it in this topic or on these forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyalia
See, I don't really see fantasia as being the support I'm talking about, as I really doubt SE put it in with trans people in mind, like.. Outside of trans folks who start playing the game with people they're closeted to irl or maybe they come to terms with it later in life while, I'd figure most trans folks would just play as the gender they identify with. I figure fantasia (Due to the fact that it basically just lets you recreate your character) is there for anyone who just wants to drop 10$ for a change for fun. Not to mention the whole ordeal of fantasia being dubiously canon, we literally get them from the mail mysteriously (As our characters have no concept of a "Mog station"). Like.. I want to be considered like any other woman myself, but I don't want to shove the whole transgender thing in a box and kick it in the closet, in a similar way as a pansexual person I might end up in a heterosexual relationship for the rest of my life, but I don't want to hide the fact that I am pansexual. Like getting an exact consensus on this whole ordeal is nigh impossible, so I could say many (if not most) of us trans women, "post" transition or not, want to be seen as trans women, though that isn't to say your claim doesn't have a level of validity to it. Now.. I'd have to question why you associate being in the midst of transition as being "non-binary", as I don't really think there's an end to transitioning (Especially not currently) nor do you have to even touch hormones to be considered your identity of choice (As plenty of cis women have variable levels of hormones, and I know plenty of non-binary and binary trans people that either don't want hormones or can't access them). Like.. I'd really argue "trans people are forced to express and be seen as non-binary during their transition." is due in part to the way cis people (And some trans people) interpret gender identity, like do we also look at very masculine women (Such as ones with natural high testosterone levels) as non-binary as well? Like, I personally don't associate gender identity with physical appearance, so I really don't get why it has to be that way.
I mean, I'm glad fantasia fits your idea of an "ideal trans person fantasy", but fantasia certainly doesn't fit mine. Like.. Outside of the dubiousness canon-ness of fantasia or even if it is 100% canon as something even available to regular people of Eorzea, I just don't jive with the whole "You're suddenly 100% identical to a cis woman!" idea, I feel like it falsifies who I am and my struggles to have this magical solution to the issue, kinda akin to like "Taking a magical potion and waking up straight!" or something imho. I appreciate this quantitative/qualitative idea that my character can be transgender like I am, go through a generic transition like I am, et cetera.. Like.. Stuff that allows for the stereotypical traits of the opposite sex (And I'm only using the terminology of "opposite sex" due to how the game is presented) on the sex of your choice would my "ideal trans person fantasy". Stuff like "7'3 Au Ra girl with stereotypical male scale pattern and a more masculine face (IE scale chin crests and all)", "Roegadyn woman with a bit of a more square body", or just like even "Miqo'te girl that's 5'8 and has a face that's kind of masculine". It doesn't have to necessarily equate to "This is the trans option." (As a lot of cis women do have plenty of stereotypical masculine features), but it does allow for me to visualize my character as a trans person much easier. Pronoun choices and having every piece of gear being unisex would also be a pretty viable way for helping this issue as well imho. Like.. I value that I'm a woman, but I also value that I'm a trans woman. I'm not cis, nor do I really want to be as I'm prideful of who I am.
I really don't qualify the boss of T9 as a trans dude to be honest, after rewatching the cutscene all they say in regards to it is like "Huh, this is odd." but they don't seem to express anything akin to dysphoria or any particular association with being a guy either, just a "Huh this is odd, but whatever! Anyways blah blah plot spoilers about who the boss is." (Like if we're going to talk about "If I had to associate them with a transgender identity" I'd go with non-binary or agender to be honest).. And even then, I don't really consider something akin basically akin to "Mind swap" as being transgender or being proper transgender representation either. Also I'd be really interested in a citation on that claim, because off the top of my head I can think of some notable Japanese trans women, but I really can't think of any notable Japanese trans men though.. While that doesn't necessarily refute the claim you make, I do find it hard to believe that it somehow trans men are more common yet less notable within the media.
Being non-binary is being trans, but you don't have to be non-binary if you identify as a binary trans identity, like you still transition (Or not really if it how you feel about you and your gender doesn't fit the idea of transitioning) to fit your personal idea of you and your gender as any of the plethora of non-binary identities.
It's not, but like basically every bit of the post moogle quests aren't any of our business really (Like the quests in the line are quite literally "Solve/follow X while they solve X's personal problems" most of the time), they're events we observe and hey, maybe we end up being someone's confidant in one of those quests with regards to their gender identity . Plus, it's kind of hard to have any trans representation within the game whenever that sort of logic is used, like we don't really need to know anything about the NPCs but we get them.. It's kinda like saying "This game has perfect pan/bisexual representation!" by just assuming any character we meet is just showing heterosexual interests at this current moment but is actually bisexual or pansexual, like it's the different between Hauchefant (And a Miqo'te woman in the Hidden Springs) and just doing what you're talking about because we don't want to pry into fictional character's personal lives.
Like currently, considering the whole "Manderville in a dress" "joke" and the "joke" the NA translators slide in with involving certain NPC and Alphinaud's feminine appearance, I really don't think SE or the NA translators have trans people in mind with this game.
It's a game, with a story that tackles a plethora of issues. Like god forbid people use a game to help find a community that they can relate too via elements within the game. If you thing LGBT folks finding communities with games is a "problem" you might want to think a little bit about whether or not you're being bigoted based on what you're writing. Like.. I'm not much of a fan of how much of an aversion you seem to have with this whole idea of FFXIV being know as "the 'LGBT' game".. How do you think we feel when we look at 95% of the games/media that only have straight romance plots or only feature cisgender people?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon
Also, because I like going on satirical parodies with posts like these..
I play FF 14 to get away from real world problems like everyone assuming I'm straight and cis and I thank SE for making this wonderful game, but can we stop with the "straight and cisgender" stuff? There are bars, websites, and clubes to support you, please don't use FF 14 for it.
Plus like, what's wrong with showing a bit of support for breast cancer survivors? Like it's not particularly hard and I'm sure lots of people appreciate it.
Also, nice job Annah :P Usually what I go for and enjoy seeing in response to posts like that. -
08-21-2015, 01:22 PMDarkStaoneDragon
@Samcaesar I never said anything remotely close to "I had a problem with showing support for breast cancer" there was a thread a while back where a person was encouraging people to support breast cancer survivors and ones who lost their lives by wearing pink (in game) and was told by many other players to keep their real life problems out of the game, I'm all for showing support for breast cancer, heck my grandmother survived a round of it.
But back on topic, people need to be judged by their personality and who they are and not their preference, but if you did a search on straight threads and compared to the LGBT threads you'll see a huge number difference in how many threads there are, I'm not trying to offend anyone here I just think we all should leave sex orientation out of it and have fun playing the game. -
08-21-2015, 01:24 PMAdireThat might be because being straight is the societal norm and because straight people have never been a persecuted minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon