Oh yeah? Correct me if im wrong, but dont tank threat rotations already produce a level of damage? If you lose out on damage entirely, what are you doing, spamming flash all boss fight long?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
I am a bad tank coz i use vit(tank) gear!
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07-19-2015, 05:53 PMAeyis
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07-19-2015, 06:22 PMGramul
If str is so important for tanks, they should really consider giving us more str bonuses in our base gear. Right? I certainly wouldn't mind more stat bonuses.
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07-19-2015, 06:25 PMLadonYou mean like the entire left side does already?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramul
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07-19-2015, 06:27 PMGramulI said more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladon
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07-19-2015, 06:33 PMTheodricIt'd be better if we were forced to use VIT gear (by locking STR accessories to DPS classes) and giving us an attractive bonus to using VIT - such as an increase to damage dealt/more powerful abilities based on our overall health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramul
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07-19-2015, 06:36 PMKryloI love how the post right after this is Aeyis doing the 'str tanks are dumb' thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon
Also, I think the fact that every thread started on this in general has been calling all str tanks awful either directly or indirectly says something about this, too.
I don't really care how tanks gear so long as they know what they're doing, but considering the way these threads start, well. Guess I'm stuck arguing for strength because that's the one people are trying to say is bad. -
07-19-2015, 06:38 PMSpookyGhostYes, by attacking the boss to generate hate you are by default doing a level of DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
You are also default mitigating damage by simply having your tank stance on.
And how do we enhance our capabilities of doing both of these? For tanking, we learn when to pop what CD, when you need to favor mitigation over damage, etc. etc. For damage dealing we learn when to use our offensive buffs, when we can stance dance, when we can forego using a defensive CD defensively and instead using it offensively (Rampart in Sword Oath = Shield Oath with more damage, Thrill + Conv in Deliverance = Defiance with more damage, etc).
There is a very tricky balance to optimizing yourself as a tank. It is not strictly about being able to take hits, but being able to maximize every aspect of your job without harming the others. Healers and tanks both perform this careful balancing act if you are playing your job to the best of it's ability. It's more noticeable on a healer who doesn't heal because they have to make a choice when to DPS the boss vs a tank who, by default, will be DPSing the boss. I wear STR accessories once I've learned what the boss does and when/where I'll need what CD - tanking will always take priority over DPS, you always want to be prepared to tank any hit before you know what exactly the boss is going to smack you with. Once you understand that, then you can start maximizing your DPS - planning out when you use what, when you can afford to be out of your tank stance, when you should use and when you should save your offensive buffs, etc.
If you just want to prioritize tanking on your tank then that's fine. I could care less about PUG tanks that stack VIT to their heart's content. I think the "STR tanks are bad!" argument stems from bad tanks wearing STR accessories, not making the proper progression of learning how to tank first and learning how to maximize your DPS second. I have been maximizing my DPS since 2.0 when Gryphonskin was a thing, it is not something you just jump head first into and understand completely. I always recommend against going full STR for new tanks because 9/10 you'll end up being too squishy and fall flat on your face, wondering why that happened, and you'll get people coming to the OF complaining about you and putting every other STR tank who's competent in a bad light because of it. Every good STR tank starts with either melded accessories or full VIT and then decides, once they know their damage intake, how much VIT they can afford to shed off.
A pure VIT tank's view on this is that we're all just stupid, wearing STR 24/7, expecting healers to heal us through everything and never DPS, etc. etc. It's not the case. The only difference between a competent pure VIT tank and a competent pure STR tank is that one of them knows that they can shed off excess VIT that isn't necessary and maximize their raid's DPS without costing themselves needed survivability.
I know, I know. Some people signed up for tanking and didn't expect to get pigeon holed into having to DPS as well. I really don't like that tanks have to gear this way and I would love it if tanks had defensive secondaries that actually mattered and made tanking itself more engaging/fun. As it stands, though, one of the aspects of our job is to hit the boss and therefore one of the things we must maximize is our ability to hit the boss as hard as we can. Not at the cost of survivability - thus the balance. This is really hard to explain as it's been such common knowledge to me for 2 years now, but I hope that helps a bit. I'm not saying VIT tanking is wrong, but I don't think it optimizes the job correctly - and I also don't think that new players should be trying to optimize a secondary priority over a primary priority.
{Perfect Balance}. -
07-19-2015, 09:01 PMStrejdaTom
I always had hard time understanding why lvl 60 tank with ilvl 180 should have VIT accessories in dungeons, unless he wants to make the run longer to enjoy the trash and generic bosses.
But yeah, I won't flame tank in dungeon only because he has VIT gear even if it isn't neccessary.
... On the other hand during static raid the tank better git gut or git lost. xD -
07-19-2015, 09:07 PMKiyashiNo b/c that VIT bad tank can't hold hate properly. Having a bad tank in general is bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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07-19-2015, 09:12 PMStrejdaTomBad VIT and STR tank would be bad in the same way. The healing is still healer's job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
So good healer will feel no difference between bad VIT and STR tank.