Please add STR to Fending accessories

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

uhh, what? I have no idea how it would be OP.

Tanks can already get crafted stuff that's 30/30. It's not even raid gear (it's i150), doesn't require rare mats and isn't even that hard to craft. For anyone who has access to this type of gear, they love it because they hit hard and they're durable. It's great fun and nobody loses because they can do it. The only thing that sucks is you have to go through the awful materia system to get there. But after you're done, it's pretty cool.

The imbalance is that raid gear, the stuff that's supposed to be BiS doesn't have any STR on it at all.

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Then we would have every other class asking or VIT on their accessories. So in reality, it is fine the way it is, get to the minimum HP threshold and then stack STR.

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Originally Posted by Alexika

Then we would have every other class asking or VIT on their accessories.

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You seriously think every other class is going to riot because their tanks can do more damage and hold threat better? I mean, I know the community can be a little petty sometimes but this would be over the top.

Was every other class complaining when they gave healers +accuracy on their gear for free?

i just go 3 slaying and 2 fending pieces
works fine so far

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

You seriously think every other class is going to riot because their tanks can do more damage and hold threat better? I mean, I know the community can be a little petty sometimes but this would be over the top.

Was every other class complaining when they gave healers +accuracy on their gear for free?

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Yes, yes I do. When FCoB came out other jobs were having to wear crafted so they could add VIT to it. Healers trying to get to 6K+ or more. Probably going to see a repeat of that, why would they not want a free option rather than spend the gil?

But please, drop the hold threat aspect of this. A VIT tank is not going to struggle with threat unless he is with a very aggressive playing OT, such as in my old static, where I could rip hate off him without Defiance doing just SE and SP combos. Otherwise, no one was even close.

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Originally Posted by Alexika

Yes, yes I do. When FCoB came out other jobs were having to wear crafted so they could add VIT to it. Healers trying to get to 6K+ or more. Probably going to see a repeat of that, why would they not want a free option rather than spend the gil?

But please, drop the hold threat aspect of this. A VIT tank is not going to struggle with threat unless he is with a very aggressive playing OT, such as in my old static, where I could rip hate off him without Defiance doing just SE and SP combos. Otherwise, no one was even close.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Having more threat on a DRK or WAR means you have to do your Powerslash/Butcher's block combo less often. For DRK this means you get more MP back and maybe restore more HP via souleater. For WAR this means greater up time on your 2 debuffs.

I'm guessing PLD now has more options for extra DPS if they can drop the halone combo. Of course whether or not that's advisable depends entirely on if you need that halone debuff or not.

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/10charzandstuff

Tanks are not there to simply mitigate damage. A (not insignificant) part of FFXIV tank role design is to DPS. If it wasn't they wouldn't get DPS stances, DPS CDs, DoTs, high potency DPS rotations, etc.

If tanks one day decided not to dps, you would have a harder time meeting dps checks in progression content without overgearing. Tank DPS is factored into the minimum DPS requirements.

Tanks also received even more dps capability in Heavensward. Anyone saying tanks aren't also supposed to focus on DPS do not seem to be line with the design philosophy of this team.

STR tanks aren't "squishier". If a STR spec and VIT spec both take 3k damage, they both require 3k healing from the healer. You might get a few hundred more hp out of a stoneskin, but for the most part, identical healing is required.

However a STR Warrior will self heal significantly more with Equilibrium, Inner Beast, Storm's Path, Blood bath, etc. Which, in actual fact, means they will mathematically require LESS healing from you. Not to mention the faster kill speed, lowering overal raid healing requirements, increased enmity generation.

The only time high hp is of benefit is when you heave to deal with phases of very high damage taken in a very short period of time to a point that you would not surive safely otherwise. Any other time you are intentionally nerfing yourself with VIT acesories. I have not experienced any of these in current content that required a set of VIT accesories.

That STR tank is just trying to do his part to make life easier for you. You're welcome ;)

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

/10charzandstuff

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My Dark barely uses his enmity combo and he tanks without Grit up. Butchers is the highest potency combo, so you have nothing there. And you completely failed to address what I said, VIT tanks will have zero issue with threat anyway, the only time any tank has issue with threat is at the very opening of the fight, and STR won't give you that much more of a lead.

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Originally Posted by Alexika

My Dark barely uses his enmity combo and he tanks without Grit up. Butchers is the highest potency combo, so you have nothing there. And you completely failed to address what I said, VIT tanks will have zero issue with threat anyway, the only time any tank has issue with threat is at the very opening of the fight, and STR won't give you that much more of a lead.

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If you can hold threat by rarely using the enmity combo and not using Grit then it just sounds like your DPS aren't very good.

If you're doing butchers you need to drop SE or SP or you'd need to drop both for a few seconds each rotation. If you skip butchers, you can have SP & SE active all the time. It's a nice option to have.

STR has a very noticeable effect on damage. It will also boost threat by the same amount.

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Originally Posted by Destomius

Why are we using Alex (normal) as an example? That kind of content is so easy you can probably clear with 2 DRKs, 2 Astros, and 4 Bards.

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Unless Alex Savage doesn't ever need two tanks each tanking a different target, you can't really always rely on having the buffs for PLD to perform well.

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Originally Posted by Danko

Tanks are not there to simply mitigate damage. A (not insignificant) part of FFXIV tank role design is to DPS. If it wasn't they wouldn't get DPS stances, DPS CDs, DoTs, high potency DPS rotations, etc.

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Not arguing that tanks shouldn't do dps. But if you consider how the PLD stance spends GCD and MP, you realize that it wasn't designed to do stance dances. Yes, we switch into Sword Oath when we're not tanking, but the discussion was never about that situation.

A tank's main job is still to mitigate enough of the damage to make the party successful. And that means when we give up part of that mitigation (for example by tanking the boss in Sword Oath as mentioned previously), we need to evaluate not just our own dps gain, but the dps losses suffered by healers who now have to heal extra 20% of damage.

VIT lets the healers heal less, which means more dps from the healers. The question is, when the tank is doing 200 dps more, how much does healer dps drop. And by wearing STR accessories, even if the WAR gets 200 dps boost, the PLD doesn't necessarily get the same boost. That is what we must look at.

I think all Accessories should have 40 main stat, 20 vitality. However, the tank pieces should be 40 vitality, 20 strength.


So, tank jewelry:

40 Vitality
20 Strength
20 Determination or Parry

dps jewelry:
40 Strength
20 Vitality
20 Critical or Determination