Concerning Elidibus, I interpret his words and actions as being "true neutral" which is Not unlike Zodiark's clan primer description in FF12 and Revenant Wings: that of an unbiased judge who measures your worth. Zodiark is also opposite of Ultima in Ivalice lore, who like her angelic partner Zalera, defied the gods while Zodiark was just sealed away out of caution for being too strong. I can't say the same for fellow "abnormal" Ascian lahabrea, because Mateus was a pretty nasty dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberel
And since the Ascians all appear to have different goals, I wonder about two things: which ones are responsible for what Umbral Era, and if SE will take the route that has them emulating their Espers' histories in FF14. For example, Samyaza/Shemhazai is the Whisperer, known for being the one that influenced Ultima and the others to rebel.
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06-04-2015, 12:21 PMDalvy
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06-04-2015, 03:29 PMKaiser-Ace
Me personally, I didn't view his final words in the English text to be threatening. Even though a lot of what he says seems mocking in tone that statement seemed like he was almost legitimately worried about us. Like he really didn't like the idea of us getting involved.
I'm not sure if we could really call Middy and Ally but he's at least not an enemy.
Unlike a certain blue coat wearing Ala Mhigan that I will certainly enjoy killing. -
06-04-2015, 03:51 PMBelhi
I think Midgarsormr is just a very old and very cynical dragon who is frankly sceptical at us being 'the chosen one'. We are basically stepping into an ancient and immense war between the 'light' and 'darkness' that has been raging for thousands of years and is on the level of gods. No matter our mortal accomplishments we seem pretty tame to be the lynch pin to put everyone's hopes on.
The dual storylines of the mundane vs the almost divine conflicts we are involved in as characters is one of the most interesting aspects of FF14's stories. Epic wars like the dragonsong war, for all their history and tragedy, are simply another battle in our war. An important battle almost certainly but there is a difference in scale.
I think there will be an undercurrent in Heavensward that touches exactly why we have been chosen and I think that will be highly satisfying.
Firstly, I think it will so that we are chosen because we are special, not special because we are chosen. It's notable that we are often underestimated because of that.
Secondly, and this is pure speculation, I think that why we are chosen will be linked not only to what we can do (which is a lot) but the effect we have on those we visit. Just consider everything we do and have done. We are like a rallying force, bringing Eorzea together and inspiring them. We even have brought the beast tribes closer to the player races and each other. Lahabrea has an interesting line at the end of the Preatorium in the final cutscene. He says "The Light, it binds them" when all the light versions of the Scions and GC company leaders appear.
Most of what I've seen seems to indicate that Hydaelyn is losing and growing weaker. She has expended a lot of strength on us. She is making a hell of a gamble. We must hold some importance for her to invest so much in us at such a serious time in her war. -
06-04-2015, 03:57 PMdvoraen
There is one point I haven't really seen touched on here in this thread: the great river of aether, as it's referred to in the game. Why do I bring this up? Because it seems to be directly involved with the events of the Calamity, which was the Seventh Rejoining, to hear the Ascians call it.
How do I know this? The cutscenes in the Binding Coil of Bahamut. Specifically, Alisaie mentions that the "great river of aether" had its directional flow changed during the Calamity. The timing of that is rather suspect, for one, as later in the 2.5 main scenario, while discussing where to find enough aether to destroy an Ascian soul, the great river comes up again as being too dangerous to meddle with.
And yet, someone(s) did, during the Calamity. I propose that what the Ascians are doing is gradually shifting the course of this river over a long period of time. Like any large river, it'd be extremely difficult to divert the main body without considerable manpower and time. Which leads me to Primal summoning. How does this matter? They consume aether to manifest and stay corporeal. We don't know if this aether is being drawn from the river, or if the land and the great river of aether are one and the same, but let's assume for the moment that to speak of one is to speak of the other. The more Primals out and about having an aether snack, the more flow is taken from this large body of aether, and therefore the easier it would be to ... adjust its course.
In other words, I think that the Ardor is the process by which the Ascians divert the great river of aether away from Hydaelyn, towards Zodiark. They've flat out said that "even as it enervates, the Ardor empowers our master." Context would suggest that the enervation is directed at Hydaelyn (she is becoming increasingly weaker, a fact constantly thrown at us by the Ascians, particularly Nabriales). Additionally, Nabriales heavily implies that he would have used a massive quantity of aether (via Tupsimati's tablet and "the horn" from 1.0) in order to cause "the next Rejoining", in his words. The implication is that he would likely have tapped directly into the great river to fuel/cause the Ardor (per Lahabrea and Elidibus talking at the end of 2.55); Nabriales, however, was going to cause a Rejoining with both objects, so it's clear that the Ardor and the Rejoining are directly related to each other.
I'm not entirely certain how the Ardor and the Rejoining (referred to as dimensional compression by Moenbryda) are related, but to me it seems pretty clear that the former begets the latter. The Ardor is "invoked", which leads to a Rejoining. We don't know exactly what effects this is having, aside from it causing Hydaelyn to willingly expend her strength to protect humankind from it, and it's costing her two-fold: her own strength, and an increasing lack of rejuvenation from the great river's course shifting away from her.
That's my rambling, anyway. -
06-04-2015, 04:27 PMWyrahFhurrstAt first when I read this I was like "No, but the Calamity is what caused the redirection in the River," but then I started to think that the Calamities (all seven of them) might actually be the sources of redirection, like building levees to direct a river's flow. Points in the fabric of history changing the landscape and the spirits of the people of the world, ultimately redirecting the flow of the River of Aether. Like I said, it didn't seem like it was right until I started to think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dvoraen
Overall, a pretty solid idea, methinks. -
06-04-2015, 04:33 PMAnonymooseIs there anything that concretely separates them, so far? I mean, what is a Calamity to those negatively affected could be an Ardor to those who benefit, and simply the Rejoining to anyone referring to it neutrally at the time. At the very least, I think Calamity and Ardor are synonymous and that these and the Rejoining are part of the same overall event (of which there have now been seven).Quote:
Originally Posted by dvoraen
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06-05-2015, 12:50 AMFenral
This theory is going to leave Final Fantasy behind (well, except for much-beloved FFIX), and move off into a Tales of Symphonia-ward direction, but...
Aether levels throughout Eorzea are dropping, and each time a Primal is summoned and then slain, Zodiark grows in strength...
Any and all "disturbances" in the flow of aether, particularly when we dissipate some massive entity like a Primal, could be causing that aether to flow from Hydaelyn to Zodiark. The Rejoining has nothing to do with the lands themselves, and everything to do with the balance of aether between the "light" and the "dark." In a way it's like the cycle of souls between Gaia and Terra in FFIX, with Eorzea itself serving as the Iifa Tree. Silvertear Falls is the link controlling the flow between the two worlds.
What they get out of it? No idea, unless their world was on the decline until they started meddling in our world. They may even be trying to correct the balance enough that another way can be found to moderate the flow. -
06-05-2015, 01:57 AMCilia
OK, now that the debate over Au Ra evolutionary patterns has largely been settled (or at least conceded), I can get into the important shit.
Incidentally, I find this to be a likely possibility as well. I'm basing my ideas on the Dark Souls games, but it follows a similar axiom; two forces in constant struggle, Flame / light and Dark. When the Flame splutters and fades, Dark rises, but inevitably someone reignites the Flame and pushes the Dark back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
I imagine that's somewhat similar to the Astral / Umbral ages, with Hydaelyn growing in power and influence during Astral Ages and Zodiark during Umbral. Then we've got the Primals, who screw up the aether flow just by being summoned and continuing to exist; I think they're impure manifestations of Zodiark, for the most part, since all the Primals we regularly fight (the six elemental ones and Moggle Mog) were summoned through rituals taught by the Ascians, and aside from Shiva (and to a lesser extent Ramuh) have no qualms about continuing to exist, eating up all the aether they can, and killing as many of the spoken races as they can. Lahabrea mentions that he wants to cause a "chaotic confluence of aether" with the Primals to bring about Zodiark's rebirth; the MO of most Primals certainly works into this plan.
Speaking of Ramuh, his final words are something like "Before man, there was no difference between Light and Dark." This, combined with Lahabrea's description of Hydaelyn as a "parasite," led me to the hypothesis that Hydaelyn is the original Primal, created so long ago by Man that nobody remembers how or why. I think Zodiark's previous "version" of the world just sucked so bad for Men they created Hydaelyn, who usurped Zodiark's position as "Fathercrystal," took up the mantle of Mothercrystal, and led to Man flourishing. The Primals created by the beastman tribes are indirect attempts to contest Hydaelyn, but because they're fractured in their faith unlike Man, cannot topple her. This also fits the Ascians' MO, since while none of the Primals can individually best Hydaelyn, their repeated summonings severely weaken her and reduce her influence though a "chaotic confluence of aether." As Hydaelyn weakens and fails, Zodiark grows in strength until he's "reborn" and takes his position as "Fathercrystal" back.
What happens then is anyone's guess. But I like this world, even if it's sometimes cruel, and that's reason enough to fight for it.
Either way, point is the separation of Light and Dark is tied to Man's existence, so without a universal paradigm shift or finding a way to break the cycle, we'll always be in conflict with the Ascians and Zodiark.
The rest I can't really say. "Ardor," "Rejoining," and "Calamity" all seem to have similar meanings, so it's probably just a matter of connotation. -
06-05-2015, 03:18 AMAlberelThis reminds me actually... There was a scientist we escort around to read ambient aether levels in 2.5. On the surface it seems like it's just a plot device to have us find Wilred's body at Urth's Fount but the actual discovery of the body completely overshadowed the scientist's discovery. Didn't he start panicking when he realised just how low the aether levels were? The subsequent events kind of distracted everyone from that little scene and few people seem to have picked up on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
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06-05-2015, 03:43 AMFenralSome person you've never met face-to-face was wrong. Setting them straight is important, dammit! XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
I think there are a lot of plotlines that certainly pretend like we've totally wrapped them up neatly with a bow and have no need to address them again, but... Yeah, there's definitely more going on there. How it all fits into the puzzle is the million dollar question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberel
See, what was a little different with Symphonia was the point that because the cycle the world is in was, in fact, created by man to begin with, it was not wrong for man to rewrite the universe again to change it. Granted, Symphonia (being, in part, a critique of Final Fantasy X) was about an 11 on the idealistic scale, and ended by deciding a (pretty far-off) goal to be worked for but not outlining how to get there. Then the sequel went pretty dark places by asking "what did you think was going to happen when you rejoined the worlds, really? Instant world peace?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
We seem to be moving season-by-season through various plotlines, so even if we do complete/thwart the Rejoining at some point, what comes after could still have its own share of problems to deal with