SMN gets shafted on gear; on cross class abilities; and, to rub salt in the wound, on job abilities; and you think it isn't hurting them? The reason people complain about One Ilm Punch, Freeze, Rain of Death, Enkindle, and Tri-disaster is because you only get five abilities to distinguish you over the base class, and one of them sucks so much it might as well not exist. The sad thing is, they could remove Enkindle and Tri-disaster from the game completely, putting nothing in their place, and it would be less of a DPS loss for SMN than when they lost Thunder. The same is true of the other three abilities I listed. They could be removed from the game entirely with pretty much zero effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianmj
Enkindle and Tri-Disaster: Useless as they come.
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03-26-2015, 11:14 PMViridiana
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03-26-2015, 11:32 PMJudge_XeroThat's a really good point about Thunder. Like....why is Tri-Disaster not another DOT or something. When they took Thunder it should have been replace by another DOT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
That would start to distinguish SMN from SCH a little bit. Heck, SCH even has Aero, so their DOT arsenal is larger than the DOT DPS class.
I'd be happy if Tri-Disaster was a DOT spell, that had 10 Potency for each additional DOT (3 Dots <TRI> - and added to the effect of Fester, bringing it to 400 Potency.
Tri-Disaster - Cast Time Instant - 133 MP - 50 Potency - 30s - Cause wounds inflicted by Bio, Bio II, and Miasma to strengthen, dealing Unaspected damage over time with a potency of 10 for each effect. Can only be used when the original spells were cast by you, and when under the effect of Aetherflow.
Fester - Cause wounds inflicted by Bio, Bio II, Miasma and Tri-Disaster to fester, dealing damage with a potency of 100 for each effect. Can only be used when the original spells were cast by you, and when under the effect of Aetherflow.
*** Although it should not be possible to Bane or Contagion Tri-Disaster as that seems a bit OP. We are looking for better ST damage as SMN as not to put BLM out of commission.
Enkindle I don't really care about. It has it's uses, and so far while not completely overgearing content SE has done an ok job at timing the CD to endgame content.
i.e.
if you use Enkindle on your T10 opener, it will be up again for the 2nd set of adds.
if you use Enkindle on your T11 opener, it will be up again for Orb phase.
T12 opener - up for Bennu Phase
T13 opener - up for Twintania add phase section.
I mean, if it was up in half the time, then that would still line up, and be more free damage, but IMO is not a priority on the QOL SMN agenda.
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I really like the current SMN play style and don't feel like the pets need to make a more major impact than they do (big massive beings with huge damaging attacks), but I would like to see a lot more SMN synergy. At the moment it's like you have two separate things that occasionally work together, i.e. Rouse, Spur, Contagion, Sustain lol.
I want to feel like the SMN draws it's power from the Summons. Which I feel could be accomplished by something as simple as the pets changing the effects of certain SMN skills.
i.e. Garuda could change the effect of Bane simply by increasing it's radius of effect.
i.e. Ifrit could change the effect of Fester to 110 Potency/Dot.
Even Titan could have some effect related to it's type. Shadow Flare + Titan reduces damage by 5% when mobs are in Shadow Flare (instead of having the slow effect)
Like even for future Egi's - Ramuh - 100% timer reset from Bane (onto other mobs), Levi - Changes Enhanced Pet to - Chance that crit will make next spell instant cast and double potency. -
03-27-2015, 12:17 AMViridianaEhh. . .it's somewhere around 1.8 potency per second per target, and that's being generous by pretending that Spur lines up every time when it doesn't. Against a single target, Raging Strikes and Contagion will provide a bigger boost at over 1.9 potency per second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Xero
Don't get me wrong, Enkindle is better off than Tri-Disaster, but it's still losing to a cross-class ability. -
03-27-2015, 12:28 AMseekified
I'm gonna be wild and question why Summoners are poison masters instead of spirit-calling elementalists in this game. Pet actions on the visually unimpressive egis, sure, but still. You ask me, the egis should be twice as large, better animated and the entire job should be all about them. Having ACN as the base class sort of ruins that, though.
I agree that dropping Tri-disaster would be about as big a loss as a DRG losing Feint, but I do understand why Thunder isn't cross-classable anymore. Cutting the CD on Enkindle sounds better... -
03-27-2015, 12:31 AMEloahIve never seen anyone complain about One Ilm Punch or Rain of Death, those moves fit well into people rotations, and it's not like the move is lacking anything compared to other moves from the same job. Freeze, however, I agree with, it's just a slight buffed Blizzard II. You would think it would be a Flare equivalent, but no. It should at least place an AoE on the ground, plus the cast animation is pathetic. But tjis is a Summoner thread, lol, imguess we should focus on Tri-Disaster and Enkindle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
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03-27-2015, 12:43 AMViridianaYou haven't been paying attention, then. >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
No one has used Rain of Death outside of free procs since. . .2.1? Whenever WAR got buffed. And many BRDs don't even use Wide Volley to potentially get those procs, because Quick Nock is more reliable. No one has ever seriously used One Ilm Punch unless they just really wanted to see if it works on whatever buff they're looking at (and, no, it doesn't). -
03-27-2015, 01:12 AMAkiza
Summoner's main issue is their design and implementation.
-The spells are poorly designed Bio and Miasma should be combined into one spell called Poison and Bio II and Miasma II should be combined into one spell called Poison II leaving 2 single target DoT spells.
-Add Elementalist Spells specializing an AoE Bursts.
-Pet abilities should be mostly built around AoE Bursts with some Single Target Bursts abilities
-Enkindle's cool down should be reduced to 2min and the cd should be tied to the pet.
This fixes the problem of Summoner being mediocre in every area of DPS while the Black Mage remains the Single Target Bursts with above average AoE Burst abilities. -
03-27-2015, 01:57 PMAlberelUnfortunately this is no longer true. When 2.0 launched, yes SMNs did higher consistent single target damage whilst BLMs were better suited to burst AOE damage, but then the whining began... BLMs eventually had their single target damage buffed which means they have BOTH solid single target and AOE damage. SMNs on the other hand have barely been touched and as such have not been compensated to keep them in line with the BLM buffs. In theory when BLMs were granted better single target damage we SMNs should have been given solid AOE options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline
It also doesn't help that the majority of multi-target mechanics in fights ultimately rely on burst damage which a SMN cannot provide. You can get your dots baned across multiple targets to see them only tic once or twice before everything dies to a flare. SMNs really do need some AOE burst damage and Enkindle is the perfect vehicle to provide that. -
03-27-2015, 04:09 PMEloahWell I started playing in 2.3 so I cannot say what existed prior to the any buffs/debuffs. I know that I do use Rain of Death to renew the status effect on enemies when it is needed. And although I haven't played Monk in a while One Ilm Punch seems okay since the potency is decent, reletively to others, and it works as a form changing move. I just may not of notice any complaints because they either have died down, or people got over them. I mean you have to admit at least these moves can fit into a rotation, Tri-Disaster can't. Enkindle has different issues but doesn't suck as much, maybe as much as the other moves where slight tweeking would be good, but it's still viable as is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
I'm not sure if I agree with the whole bio and miasma merger, but I am all for another DoT. Not sure if a summoner will ever get poison since bio and poison are sometimes interchangeable. We may see poison on another job though; dare I say Red Mage, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
I do agree that an Elemental DoT would be good, maybe have the elemental property be based on which summon is out, ifrit/fire, titan/earth, etc. And we need another AoE DoT but one that can be cast far away, or make Bane able to be used on more enemies.
While I am not sure about tying the CD for Enkindle to each pet, I agree the CD needs to be lowered. But I wouldn't be opposed to the tied CD if they made each pet more viable, and not "situational". Maybe I wanna use titan in a dungeon, or ifrit, and not be bitched at for not using garuda, though I dont hear many people complaining now-a-days, thank god. -
03-27-2015, 05:46 PMCraigerBLM is and should always be the ultimate AoE job. SMN could need some better AoE against higher amounts of enemies, but they shouldn't reach BLM's level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
SMN should have slightly higher single target DPS than BLM though... and I don't know why you want them to completely change the whole concept around.