Abuse/Vote-kick in CM

Honestly there is nothing wrong with people SBing. It's apart of the game for a reason. If you don't like that people are SBing, then don't use DF. When people go into DF they 9/10 expect people to abide by their time frame. Which is wrong, people go into DF for learning, spiritbinding and stuff like that. If you cant handle it, then don't use DF. Point said. Don't cry about people wasting your time. Your time is definitely not that valuable as you think it is and if you think for a second that you're entitled to have everything your way. Sorry friend, you're out of your damn gourd.

Pre-made groups exist for a reason, start making them. Stop putting your high ended expectations in DF, because you will be let down and pretty damn hard at that. I don't go into DF hoping for a win when I queue for T9. I go in hoping for experience to bring back to my server to teach others. If a win is given, that's fine. The same thing can be said about people SBing, as long as people aren't dying left and right then it's fine. Plus most crafted gear i50-i70 is PERFECT for SBing with in CM and it was the meta back when i70 was the cap So please get off your high horses. You can't seriously bring elitism into the picture when it comes to low content, there is no room for it especially now that we have stuff like echo.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

You are making a decision to slow the run down to benefit yourself at the expense of others. That's a pretty clear cut case of justified vote kick.

You are not entitled to do whatever you want in a group setting, where your actions affect others. This is exactly what vote kick is for.

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How do you prove intent?

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2358628

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However, there is one topic in this thread that seems to be an underlying point of contention: reasons for dismissal that are not strictly "AFK", "Offline", "Harassment", or "Cheating". I would like to address this. The response from the GM touched on this, although it was missed due to the focus on the first part of that sentence. The reasons for dismissal are not all encompassing, which means that there may be valid reasons for dismissal outside of those four examples.

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I do stand corrected that you must meet one of the four criteria explicitly. And, I thank you for the information.

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Because of these subjective discrepancies, the final decision on if a violation of the use of the vote dismiss feature is left to a GM after an investigation. In general, abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered to be a grief tactics violation, which falls under section 3.2 in the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement. However, it is only after a GM investigation that it can be determined to be a violation of the rules. If you feel that the vote dismiss feature has been abused, please do report it to the GMs through the Help Desk in game, and we will investigate.

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You are not right but neither are you wrong at this point as no GM has done a formal investigation to decide the matter once and for all. Thus, neither of us is right or wrong at this point we just have a difference of opinion. Your is opinion is cantankerous to general populous but that does make it wrong (at this point). Therefore, we must agree to disagree and leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

You are not right but neither are you wrong at this point as no GM has done a formal investigation to decide the matter once and for all. Thus, neither of us is right or wrong at this point we just have a difference of opinion. Your is opinion is cantankerous to general populous but that does make it wrong (at this point). Therefore, we must agree to disagree and leave it at that.

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Actually, I'm gonna chime in on something I failed to mention a few pages back.

I do recall getting dismissed from a team, not once, but twice (same team rejoined in progress) for my gear on my warrior. Note this was when I made it all the way to Fenrir, SR as they requested with no issue holding hate or dodging AoE's in snowcloak and was dismissed by a team of french guys who started off speaking english, but then spoke french the rest of the way, while I could make out key words like "coup de pied" and "loltank" I tried to think nothing of it until the kick came at Fenrir's doorstep.

Last thing I read was "bye bye tank lol" when I rejoined in progress I was told by one member that he voted me off cause I still had on ilvl90 boots (although my average was 104, but this was just an excuse he used to roll on gear after defeating Fenrir).

Anyhoo, I filed a report for such and labeled it under harassment. When the GM came, which was relatively quick, he quickly informed me that this is not harassment, but rather what they did fell under "grieving" and as such he continued to elaborate what I did was not incorrect and I should not have been voted off the team as long as I met the requirements and not hindering the team personally. That is why I strongly stand by that vote kicking someone because they are not over geared or you think they have better, when they meet ilevel requirements of the instance and is doing their job (healing/tanking/dpsing) is indeed kick abuse.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

I filed a report for such and labeled it under harassment. When the GM came, which was relatively quick, he quickly informed me that this is not harassment, but rather what they did fell under "grieving" and as such he continued to elaborate what I did was not incorrect and I should not have been voted off the team as long as I met the requirements and not hindering the team personally. That is why I strongly stand by that vote kicking someone because they are not over geared or you think they have better, when they meet ilevel requirements of the instance and is doing their job (healing/tanking/dpsing) is indeed kick abuse.

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There we have it, a GM ruling.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

I'm right, you're wrong.

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Therefore, you are now conclusively wrong.

I give them the chance to switch to regular gear. If they don't, I leave. New players I can understand wearing the best gear they have which isn't great. But to intentionally lower your gear just so you can turn a profit at other peoples expense doesn't sit well with me. This thread is full of opinions and people trying to argue opinions. While a GM may have told Zedd one thing, I've seen other GMs say other things, more akin to the thread that was previously linked. It's a group decision on whether or not that individual's playstyle merits being kicked from the group. Deciding to wear gear that is below what you actually have is part of one's playstyle. They stated multiple times (including in that thread) that they will usually go with what the majority of the group wanted.

As for whether something is right or wrong, that's all opinion and conjuncture. So to avoid the drama, I give the them the option of switching to their real gear. If declined, I simply remove myself from the duty without saying another word. Not a big deal, I can do other stuff in game while I wait for the 30 minute timer to wear.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

There we have it, a GM ruling.

Therefore, you are now conclusively wrong.

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Part of GM's job is to placate crybabies. They do not tell you the results of their investigation or any actions they take.

Number of people I've vote kicked for various reasons, including being bad or wearing the wrong gear: alot
Number of times they cried to GM: probably more than a few times
Number of times a GM has warned me about vote kick abuse: zero

Remember, it takes more than just 1 person to have a vote kick go through.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Part of GM's job is to placate crybabies. They do not tell you the results of their investigation or any actions they take.

Number of people I've vote kicked for various reasons, including being bad or wearing the wrong gear: alot
Number of times they cried to GM: probably more than a few times
Number of times a GM has warned me about vote kick abuse: zero

Remember, it takes more than just 1 person to have a vote kick go through.

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Getting away with abuse does not make it right.

** remove previous personal statements that were uncalled for... My apologies.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

Getting away with abuse does not make it right. But then again with your attitude it would not surprise me to find you have a criminal life in general.

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^ When people take things too far. Really? Opinions on spirit bonding and vote kicking means they're probably a criminal in real life?

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

^ When people take things too far. Really? Opinions on spirit bonding and vote kicking means they're probably a criminal in real life?

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Yes, I got too involved. My apologies. I was just about rescind the previous update then you posted.