So BLM as AOE covered, MNK has single target... What does SMN bring?

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Originally Posted by Sunako

SMN have good utility against bosses that have lot downtime because dots are ticking even if the boss is flying around and aetherflow time is running unlike some classes may lose their stacks instead. Multidotting is another good utility like in turn 10 you can dps 4 adds at same time. Using limit break as summoner is really good too for example if you use LB3 you lose 10sec your own dps. In that downtime you may lose only 4 ruin cast but for blm they lose probably 4 - 5k damage if they do 400 - 500 dps. Not sure what kind of numbers smn do since i m not using dps meters myself and what i heard those dps meters can not even read dots very well.

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Finally someone that gets it. All jobs struggle in their own ways depending on the fight. SMNs were able to dot, multi dot, and be virtually immune to almost every mechanic in the game while other jobs saw their stacks dropping. And then there is the fact that the SMN job is not even that hard to play. We cannot all be dragoons you know. But of course, everyone complains about their jobs and just want the easy treatment.

I'm nowhere near FCOB, but I didn't see anybody mention Shadow Flare. Is that not a viable skill to use on top of multi-dotting?

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

Finally someone that gets it. All jobs struggle in their own ways depending on the fight. SMNs were able to dot, multi dot, and be virtually immune to almost every mechanic in the game while other jobs saw their stacks dropping. And then there is the fact that the SMN job is not even that hard to play. We cannot all be dragoons you know. But of course, everyone complains about their jobs and just want the easy treatment.

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If your talking about dungeons then the Summoner is fine but if your talking about high end raiding then the Summoner falls behind quickly. Speaking of the Black Mage they may lose some dps when the boss jumps but they can easily make the damage lose back up as oppose to Summoner. The utility a Summoner has is also shared with the Scholar, White Mage and Black Mage so it makes bringing a Summoner to FCOB pointless.

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Originally Posted by Shug

I'm nowhere near FCOB, but I didn't see anybody mention Shadow Flare. Is that not a viable skill to use on top of multi-dotting?

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In your normal DPS rotation on Summoner, you ideally do keep it up, however some have opted to not use it because of the rather intense mana drain on Summoner in FCOB.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

Finally someone that gets it. All jobs struggle in their own ways depending on the fight. SMNs were able to dot, multi dot, and be virtually immune to almost every mechanic in the game while other jobs saw their stacks dropping. And then there is the fact that the SMN job is not even that hard to play. We cannot all be dragoons you know. But of course, everyone complains about their jobs and just want the easy treatment.

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SMN has some critical problems at the moment though. There is also nothing to essentially get either. All of the fights in FCOB have high uptime with virtually no breaks. T12 being a slight exception in the last phase. Not being able to use your normal DPS rotation to "save mana" to not go OOM so quickly is a huge problem.

There is also the problem that BLM can out DPS them at current in all of the fights. There is only one scenario where a SMN can inch higher and that's when there is a add situation where a SMN can multi-dot but a BLM cannot flare. (IE: T10 Adds)

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Yes, much lower DPS than a bard - however, a bards potency per second is WAY higher - almost twice that of a SMN's. #rekt

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I'd love to see some proof regarding that, because otherwise we would have seen these issues far longer ago. Or is that just not including gear stats (due to differences in WD)

And I don't mean a rotation based around energy drain, I mean a rotation based around Fester.

To simplify things.

SMN scaling is around 30% increase per 20 iLvls

Other classes are are around 35% per 20 iLvls.

I've heard that bard is around 40% because they get so much from WD.

Since i70 where SMN started out equal with monk there will be about a 15% difference.

That equals about 80 DPS at i135.

You don't need that much damage in FCOB so SMN is still relative, unless you need to carry other players.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

To simplify things.

You don't need that much damage in FCOB so SMN is still relative, unless you need to carry other players.

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only need 400 dps per dps player. very easy to do on any role. as always, mechanics are more important than dps (once the bare minimum has been achieved).

Yup, it's completely true! You only need this amount of DPS to clear content, so never mind! Don't care about your class, don't care about every other class outshining you, don't care about your class becoming extinct and the only viable caster people go for is Black mage. Don't care for any of that guys, you just need 400 DPS and you're all good! /thread /endsarcasm

The problem is progression statics decided that Summoner's shouldn't be brought to FCOB because they have low dos and are poorly optimized for the content. The Summoner is in a awkward position it's balance against other dps but not balanced against the content.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

Yup, it's completely true! You only need this amount of DPS to clear content, so never mind! Don't care about your class, don't care about every other class outshining you, don't care about your class becoming extinct and the only viable caster people go for is Black mage. Don't care for any of that guys, you just need 400 DPS and you're all good! /thread /endsarcasm

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You're missing the point. Yes SMN does need an adjustment due to it further falling behind each gear update. But there is no reason to jump ship on SMN currently because it's potential damage output at i115 is sufficient for all of FCOB.