Marauder needs a damage boost now ~

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Originally Posted by Rexus

LNC have the highest dmg weapons in the game, in addition they have abilities to increase TP gain and attack. They should do the most damage (per single target), or be equal with ARC. These two classes are the pure DD's, so it makes sense for them to be better DPS than MRD.

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Archer should have the upper hand, that's all they have. Lancer have several support abilities that makes them shine on their own.

Once my Linkshell was talking about how Ogre and Barthal seemed tame and barely WSed at all while the kill was even faster...then I pointed out that I was spamming Twisting Vice, Moosrise II, and interupting with Leg Sweep and keeping Comrade in Arms II and Life Surge at all time (thus buffing my party's TPs and accuracy, therefore their WS frequency).

Lancer is a support Melee, and an amazing one at that. We don't need to win the best raw DPS contest.

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I'm going to have completely disagree on GLA always the being ideal tank. GLA tanking is a safer way to go, for sure. However, you can hold hate just as fine (or better due to DPS) on MRD while making fights go faster. That seems ideal to me.

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Unfortunately, Gladiator's ability to use a shield makes them better at what tanking means: holding hate and reducing dammage recieved to a maximum. I personally wouldn't mind a tank doing more damage as long as it's damage mitigation isn't affected. If I want the fights to end faster I'll just whip and yell at my DPSes ;-)

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Originally Posted by Zarvlad

Unfortunately, Gladiator's ability to use a shield makes them better at what tanking means: holding hate and reducing dammage recieved to a maximum. I personally wouldn't mind a tank doing more damage as long as it's damage mitigation isn't affected. If I want the fights to end faster I'll just whip and yell at my DPSes ;-)

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That's the thing, shield skills became near useless on Ogre/Batraal under 60%. They end up having as much dmg mitigation as MRD but with severely lower DPS ability. I tank Ogre/Batraal on MRD only now =/

Wow, I'm going to need glasses after reading this thread.

Again, let's make it simple. Just reduce Broad Swing to a 15 sec recast and all our main issues are solved.

Why is it that simple?
Because when you can use Broad Swing more, you do more damage on more enemies, resulting in more TP, resulting in being able to use Storm's Path more which is doing more damage and build more enmity.
And that's a MRD's role, case closed.


So what happens when it's only a single mob to attack?
Well that's not our specialty, call in the Archers.

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Originally Posted by Rexus

That's the thing, shield skills became near useless on Ogre/Batraal under 60%. They end up having as much dmg mitigation as MRD but with severely lower DPS ability. I tank Ogre/Batraal on MRD only now =/

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What is your setup? I'd be willing to give it a shot.

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

Wow, I'm going to need glasses after reading this thread.

Again, let's make it simple. Just reduce Broad Swing to a 15 sec recast and all our main issues are solved.

Why is it that simple?
Because when you can use Broad Swing more, you do more damage on more enemies, resulting in more TP, resulting in being able to use Storm's Path more which is doing more damage and build more enmity.
And that's a MRD's role, case closed.


So what happens when it's only a single mob to attack?
Well that's not our specialty, call in the Archers.

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Indeed. And i apologize about it >< I knew it was gonna be a wall of text.

And i don't really understand why shouldn't i be saying Nexus name if that was specificaly to him. Its the very same of putting an @Nexus there. Also, i'm in no way attacking him...i'm just using him as an example of players that have generic playstyle...those that put actions over classes. And talking about him...nop, this discussion is not about armory system...i know some cross-class actions are cool...i use some too...but what i mean is that you let the cross-class actions define your playstyle...i wish i could see your macro palette...i bet instead of having a macro for LNC, PGL, MRD, etc you have macros for roles...Tank, DD, Mage, etc because you do seems to use the very same setup for the very same role...excluding some WSs and class exclusive stuff i bet your DD palette for all classes is the same...you palette for tanking is the same, etc. But of course i'm guessing this based on what i read until now...if i'm wrong, i do apologize. I also apologize if i sounded like if i was attacking you...it wasn't the intention. I just wanted to use you as example of one possible playstyle (the copycat)...so was this i do said you can be badass this way...somewhere near the end of my text wall you might even find the "badass" word while talking about him.

And about asking me how do i play dungeons right now...i play THM....or GLA. I have right now the setup for playing MRD as GLA copycat...but i don't feel like it. I don't want my MRD to be generic...i already had way too many problem with this before (like people openly even saying i sucked as MRD because i wasn't stacking disorient with them and, instead, i did use it more rationally, only against evasive monsters...and this because the way i played the class wasn't the same the dude did...he was one of those with 50 STR and 170 VIT we often see nowadays) so i'm kinda used to people bashing playstyles that aren't what whey assume its optimal...its exactly what you said...if you don't have those actions or don't play that way, you're gimp. This is the common sense.

And in response to that i had that balanced build that is posted...and the result...i had people that known me having outdamaging me as goal because i could tank and DD at very same time. Its nice you seeing people actually wanting to steal hate from you...seeing them trying hard enough to force you using a real tanking stance. It was cool seeing people challenging my warmonger, my full swing, my heavy swing and my storm path...but right now there is no challenge. The "born ready" tanking style of MRD is dead...noe its just like GLA...you need people to hold back so you won't feel that pathetic. I swear you...with fast basic attacks MRD would eat those raids on breakfast because those are some extremely favorable terrain for the class original mechanics. I can give you an easy example...ogre gives you low TP due strong damage mitigation, right? what about that ghost right by it? That ghost is there dor cone TP generation...you get 80ish from ogre but some decent beef from ghost...but you , right now, can have this beef only twice every 30~60 seconds...you know...i do believe that a old mechanics MRD PT (place 5 MRD 3 CON) could get the ogre dead by the time the ghosts did the 5th (3rd time they go to center) teleport just by using the ghost TP generation and fast WS bursts.

And this is what i mean...why being happy in playing GLA if you can play MRD? But for this we need basic attacks adjustments.

Some of y'all are arguing for what Marauder has become vs what it was designed for.

Visit http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/#/game...marauder/range

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The marauder is a combat specialist whose weapon of choice is the greataxe—a fearsome arm emblematic of Eorzea’s pirates. Their approach to battle is one of brute force, relying on strength and steel to crush enemies and sunder weapons.

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Does that sound like Marauder to you?

Your idea of Marauder seems to be a Paladin with a Great Sword in FFXI (well, gaxe).

Just look at the picture of them ... they are meant to use large weapons, and deal large damage. Unfortunately someone who attacks faster, hits harder, and weaponskills more has really taken over the role of 2 handed damage dealing.

Marauder shouldn't be Lancer, but Lancer shouldn't be weaponskilling faster, and auto attacking faster, for more damage.
Samurais never did as much damage as Dark Knights per hit, but they hit more often.

If Lancer hits faster than Marauder it should deal less damage per hit. Now, since the discussion was not to "nerf lancer", I bring it back to boost marauder damage a tad, boost TP gain per hit for 2 handed weapons. For the sake of balance Lancer should have to give something up. It shouldn't get all those benefits... Marauder should deal more damage per swing, but Lancer should keep the faster TP, the faster weaponskills, and the party support. Marauder doesn't have party support, it has a lot of HP, and a really really slow weapon.

Good things to make the class more useful are a Marauder-Exclusive Reposite/Counter Attack stance. In FFXI there is a move by Warriors called Retaliation, which gives you roughly 50% chance to counter attack. On Single Targets the move is ... okay. Where it really shines is in AoE fighting, the more mobs hitting you, the more often you attack, the faster you get TP, the more damage you deal.

Perhaps a "Retaliation" move would fix Marauder as well, at least in letting them maintain their AoE king status. However, there is still the issue of being outclassed by Lancers, and barely outclassing Gladiators in the DD department.

A sword has almost half the delay of a Marauder Axe but deals 80% of the damage.... why do you not see this as a problem yet? Leave swords where they are, boost Strength to Damage for 2-handed weapons. This helps Lancer, and Marauder (although lancer is relatively fine right now).

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Originally Posted by Defmetal

Some of y'all are arguing for what Marauder has become vs what it was designed for.

Visit http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/#/game...marauder/range

Does that sound like Marauder to you?

Your idea of Marauder seems to be a Paladin with a Great Sword in FFXI (well, gaxe).

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To be fair, you have to admit most of the info on the site is outdated or flat out incorrect. I was talking more about the current abilities lineup for each jobs.

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Good things to make the class more useful are a Marauder-Exclusive Reposite/Counter Attack stance. In FFXI there is a move by Warriors called Retaliation, which gives you roughly 50% chance to counter attack. On Single Targets the move is ... okay. Where it really shines is in AoE fighting, the more mobs hitting you, the more often you attack, the faster you get TP, the more damage you deal.

Perhaps a "Retaliation" move would fix Marauder as well, at least in letting them maintain their AoE king status. However, there is still the issue of being outclassed by Lancers, and barely outclassing Gladiators in the DD department.

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What about adding double attack, as stated earlier? Retaliation was added late in FFXI, counter attack always been more in the Monk's niche of moves. Not that I don't want it on Marauder (we have Fracture as a sort of counter move, after all), but I wouldn't be surprised if PUG/"Monk" get's it instead.

@Lienn

There are only so many skills each class has... what do you expect people to fill your other 20-30 actions slots with? I highly doubt anyone has every WS on their bar, and most probably don't have Disorient (since it rarely lands on high level stuff), Enduring March or Barbaric Yawp. I'd have Bloodbath on if I didn't have to use Quickstride. Other than that, I use every skill MRD has. I fill the rest of my bar with skills from every other class to supplement my role as a DPS Tank.

GLA is a polar opposite for me. I fill half my slots with GLA actions, then shield actions, then I have a few left for 'needed' cross class skills (Cure, Featherfoot, Emulate, Defender, Etc).

I don't "copycat and play MRD like GLA" at all. I have some defensive skills yes, but I focus on trying to get in BR's and pump out as much additional damage as I can while keeping hate. With GLA, I'm only focusing on keeping myself cured, having shield skills up all the time, and using any other hate ability w/e I can.

In regards to your way of wanting to do Ogre... that just isn't feasible, even if Broad Swing was on a 4 second timer. You would NOT put yourself in the middle of the room near all the ghosts, as you would die near instantly from all their AoE's. Add into the fact you/the tank would get pushed away by Ogres WS's.

I'm still confused, pre 1.18, how did you play MRD in endgame situations (NM's only I guess...)? Once the NM adds are dead in the first 2-5 minutes, your Broad Swing becomes pretty useless. I don't understand what your "former glory" image of MRD is.

@Defmetal

Zarvlad said it best, those supposed class definitions on the FFXIV site are severely outdated and no longer valid. Remember how LNC had that "you can stab from far away and not be in danger!" thing? looooool. Or how about PUGs offensive/defensive stances and their Steal/Stealth? Oh maaaaaaaaan lol.

MRD is the same MRD it started out as. It had enmity generating abilities, defense boosting abilities, and some minor attack buffs. The only thing that changed is they made it so you can't spam StormsPathBrandishSkullSunderStormSpathBrandishSkullSunder constantly anymore on multiple mobs. You CAN still do large amounts of AoE damage in small intervals, which is more than enough.

Also, why shouldn't LNC be doing more damage, and doing it faster? Just because jobs were made a certain way in XI doesn't mean that has to be reflected in XIV. I'd gladly welcome higher base dmg on our axes, sure. I still don't think lower dmg is gimping MRD tho. Hell, I take 10-15% off Batraal before the rest of the party comes over after first skeleton wave, I think that's pretty decent =/

@Zarvlad

I use this for my bar during dungeon runs (I tank, obvious by now. lol):

Heavy/Broad/Full Swing/Skull Sunder/Trunskplitter/Brandish/Storms Path/Invigorate
Cure/Second Wind/Raging Strike/Ferocity/Foresight/Featherfoot/Diversion/Quickstride
Provoke/Warmonger/Accomplice/Obsess/Sentinel/Emulate/Murderous Intent/Defender

I use full Iron gear + Solid Scale Mail + Tarred Leather Trousers. My acc's are Mythril Wristlets+1 x2, and Brass Rings+1 x2. I use Canopus Bill.

Not in the center (obviously)...no class can survive to all ghosts' spam. But no matter where you tank the ogre you always will have 1 ghost near...and this one would be the key. What ii meant was that, while ghosts are at border, you would have a constant 2 targets to broad swing, which would give you way more TP than any other melee class. With a faster broad (or full) you would get TP faster than if you used siphon and invigorate...and if you got a good soul willing to Comrade the ghost (or even yourself doing this) you would end getting roughly 1k TP/broad...Comrade woon't last long, but neither will the ghost since its only useful while in the border....now multiply this TP gain for 5 since the setup had 5 MRD...it would end with 5 people tossing WS like crazy just because SE offered you a mob with an extremely large HP pool and that never moves (and pretty much never die since its always recovering HP with the drai AoE).

The only thing that separates MRD from the "raid king" title is the retard recast they put on its basic actions. And about pre 1.18 we had heavy swing for single target. People might complain about how stanmina would hold heavy swing...but still it was enough to keep up with other melees...because its like old six-arms (yeah, i know that this example will end with "i was talking about Dodore & friends and not r35 NMs")...it has a very interesting characteristic...it has extremely high def but low VIT...so its very resistant to WS but not much to basic attacks...heavy swing can deal about 2x what you deal with WS on it. But still...its all about the enemy...if you think i'd just try and lie about what i deal against single target, too bad...yep, i'd stick with heavy swing until i see some red dots passing by at map.

You need to be fair with the questions...if you ask about MRD, assume its against Dodore, goblin or Mosshorn....you want me to say it suck as DD against great buffy? Yep, it does....but every other melee class do too. Obviously that classes with straight damage against single target (like ARC and LNC) will have an edge in this situation...but the opposite is also true....they were no match to MRD damage when fighting the NMs that have minions. I never said it was OP or that it would rule the game in every aspect if it had the basic attacks...it just don't exist (yet...who knows what battle team has reserved to ARC jobs...maybe we just end with RNG v2.0 here)...what i say is that it cannot play properly under its own patterns as it is now...aka its broken.

Eh, you could try and Broad Swing one of the ghosts while they're on the outer ring.. but you'd have to move towards them and then you'd just get knocked away from it by Ogre. I really don't think ghosts are there to TP on...

The thing about pre 1.18 against NM's with adds, MRD would be almost TOO powerful. You could pretty much have 3K TP all the time, and spamming WS's constantly is not 'balanced'. I'd almost compare it to MNK with Relic Knuckles being able to spam Asuran indefinitely.

It's a pacing thing you have to get used to now. MRD is still the AoE king, they just push out DPS a little slower... as does every class. Except ARC. They'll get their comeuppance eventually.... and many will weep.