Doesn't it make more sense for Thaum. to have Raise/Rebirth II?

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Originally Posted by Renshi

Be a Thaumaturge, Join


p.s. we got cookies.
-D.

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The cookies are a lie.

:P

I don't believe one class = one job applies to mages because the classes are overly condensed. More likely to end up being 1 class = 2 jobs or a combination of magic + war.

Conjury is basically the summoning of spirits, and Necromancy is, historically, a school of conjury dealing with the summoning of ghosts and dead spirits for the purpose of divination. Thaumaturgy, on the other hand, literally translates to "miracle working"... in other words, a thaumaturge is like a saint.

That said, it would make more sense for Thaumaturge to be given Resurrection in its purest form, and Conjuror to be given a more "temporary" solution :)

Well, the poor Cons need something. The class just sucks right now.

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Originally Posted by allenshu

Correct.

Players can still play as classes in the future, which means classes are not replaced by jobs. Therefore, if you want flexibility, you can stay with classes without problems. On the other hand, if you want specific expert actions or equipments, you may need to put the job title on to be allowed to use those. This is why SE said, players can use classes in small party for daily leves or SP-gain purposes. For big events or fighting HNM, players will need full party and expert jobs to handle more difficult battles and situations.

Like I said, based on the released info, this class/job concept is essentially the same with what we have now. What SE doing is just give more hints to let players know what roles/jobs they can be based on the classes by setting some bonus and limitations corresponding to specific roles/jobs.

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I don't think it will be okay for people to just be their combined classes without the jobs because they have stated there will be situations and battles where roles have to be filled and done so particularly by a job. It can't essentially be the same as what we have now because the filter of jobs is going to stream line it into something different than the mix and match system we've come to know. They will both have their possible places in the game, (regular classes solo, jobs with parties) but you wouldn't have to worry about being a thaumaturge rank 50 and a conjurer rank 50 to be your ideal white mage if you possibly aren't allowed to use skills from the other class. This is speaking towards the immediate future jobs and not later on down the line combined class jobs. Which still probably would not require you to rank up both to the max level if you wanted the job.

THM and CON are both geared toward destruction. Conjurer is geared more toward Black Mage. Thaumaturge isn't geared to anything but being unique. Neither one is a White Mage. They can't be reconciled with the job system. The only sensible choice is to leave both paths open to the players. You can't make a nuker into a White Mage, sorry.

I think they should do away with the whole conal AoE mechanics being the specific mode of AoE for THM and instead build it in to different abilities and spells.

Hmm, I kind of was thinking that THM would get WHM, I think it would fit better with the existing lore, but those shiny new CON spells indicate otherwise. ;_; In the CON quests (and as seen in the Gridania storyline) the whole thing with the elementals is a pretty big deal, even a central one I daresay. And here are some copy/pasted tidbits from the NPC's at the THM guild:

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Tutubuki: If you would walk these halls, you must know of Nald'thal, the two aspects. It is Nald who rules over this world of the living, and Thal who keeps the realm of the dead.

Fyrilsunn: Arrzaneth Ossuary [the THM guild in Ul'dah] is the temple of Thal. His aspect is that of death and darkness, that which we shall all come to know in time. Many of the poor and destitute worship here. For it is they who seek a better place in death than they knew in life.

Totono: East of here lies Milvaneth Sacrarium. Within its halls, the exaltations and praises of life are sung. The aspect of Nald governs this side of existence─passions and possessions. Many who worship there are the wealthy and privileged─those most grateful for what they have.

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Based on that I'd have thought they could just give THM a quest to join the presumably more exclusive Milvaneth Sacrarium as their quest to unlock the WHM job.

Though I agree with a lot of posters here that neither mage job can neatly fit in WHM or BLM, and arguments can be made either way, so its gonna be sort of messy no matter what they do. xD Ah well, maybe they are planning something totally unexpected, who knows!

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Originally Posted by Fleur

Based on that I'd have thought they could just give THM a quest to join the presumably more exclusive Milvaneth Sacrarium as their quest to unlock the WHM job.

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Some quotes from NPCs in Milvaneth Sacrarium, Ul'dah.

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Anthoinette: You have come to the Milvaneth Sacrarium. here is the temple of Nald, Imbuer of Life. Do you care to make a donation to the faith?

Hahayo: Those who worship in the world of Nald value achievement over all else. Pray to him, and be rewarded in the here and now. Through him, salvation lies in the affirmation of life, friend.

Wise Moon: Place your trust in Nald. Give you life over to him, and we shall help you in whatever ways we are able.

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So for all those paying attention, only the Thaumaturges that worship Thal in Arrzaneth Ossuary embrace death (i.e. the Dark Side). Those of us Thaumaturges that embrace life (i.e. the Light Side) worship Nald at Milvaneth Sacrarium.

It seems even though fully half the reason we exist is to "imbue life", we're not getting the most powerful life imbuing spells. Seems very strange, no?

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

I don't think it will be okay for people to just be their combined classes without the jobs because they have stated there will be situations and battles where roles have to be filled and done so particularly by a job. It can't essentially be the same as what we have now because the filter of jobs is going to stream line it into something different than the mix and match system we've come to know. They will both have their possible places in the game, (regular classes solo, jobs with parties) but you wouldn't have to worry about being a thaumaturge rank 50 and a conjurer rank 50 to be your ideal white mage if you possibly aren't allowed to use skills from the other class. This is speaking towards the immediate future jobs and not later on down the line combined class jobs. Which still probably would not require you to rank up both to the max level if you wanted the job.

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I said the class/job "concept" is essentially the same with what we have now, and indeed they are.

It's obvious that, for now or even the beginning of FFXIV, if you want to solo or play in a small party, you will set more supply actions such as cure/sacrifice or drain MP to cover your HP/MP loss by yourself. However, when fighting hard enemies with a big party, you know a healer in your party will cover your HP, so you may just have one cure for emergency heal and you don't need spend much MP to cure yourself so then you may not need drain MP. Consequently, you will have extra action slots, and you can set more tank or attack actions to enhance your role in the big party. This creates the concept of "job".

In my opinion, there are not much fancy things SE will do in the future. SE now just completes what FFXIV supposed to be, and get players to know the game more enough to realize how to play (have fun). However, some compromises were also made, such as partially introducing Auto-Attack.