Too much dancing

OP needs to do Coil Turn 2 enrage method. That's exactly what he's looking for. You just sit there eating ALL the damage while enjoying the rave lighting... hum I mean while DPSing the heck out of the boss. It's a fun fight for the healers which get to go all out AoE heals for once, but rather straightforward for the rest. Having one (or a few) battle like this in the game is fine, but too many would make things dull as hell pretty fast.

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Originally Posted by Simaril

Part of what you're missing there, is that it really, really, really sucked if you wiped, and it took a lot of time and effort and socialization to put a raid together.
In titan HM some groups just auto attack for phase 1 until LB bar is half full... similar concept...

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Why would I want all the challenge to be from herding cats?

And auto-attacking for 10% while still dealing with mechanics is a pretty far cry from sitting on your hands for 80%. Nevermind that groups only build LB because their DPS is sub-par.

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Originally Posted by Simaril

There was another boss in a later x-pac that during a certain phase if anyone used any magic spell on the boss, it full cured... which caused many many wipes so yes; NOT hitting a button can be challanging too.

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Big difference between "don't hit your normal rotation" and "afk from the fight for 80%." Note that almost every BRD and a lot of PLDs that've ever done T2 have had to do the first one.

I think the one thing that is difficult to convey, in the case of a game like EQ1, was that you were part of a team, that had grown and bonded together through time and challenges.

Even when my role in a boss fight was limited in time (say as 3rd tank in a tank rotation) I was always enjoying the raids because the stakes were high, the people I was raiding with were mates who I cared for. Everything could go downhill very fast and one's ability to improvise when the unexpected happened was paramount. You wanted to make sure you did everything you could for the success of your team and the feeling of accomplishment was amazing. I was never bored.

This is not to say that EQ was perfect, far from it, and newer games have brought some interesting innovations. But to be more accessible, they have also become less immersive and more individual oriented than community / group oriented.

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Originally Posted by HailZenberg

I think the one thing that is difficult to convey, in the case of a game like EQ1, was that you were part of a team, that had grown and bonded together through time and challenges.

Even when my role in a boss fight was limited in time (say as 3rd tank in a tank rotation) I was always enjoying the raids because the stakes were high, the people I was raiding with were mates who I cared for. Everything could go downhill very fast and one's ability to improvise when the unexpected happened was paramount. You wanted to make sure you did everything you could for the success of your team and the feeling of accomplishment was amazing. I was never bored.

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I've seen all of that happen in XIV, even though it's more mechanics-oriented, though.

1) You can't tell me that static groups don't grow together as a team. That's practically the point of a static team.
2) I've seen and heard of raids and dungeons being saved after the **** hits the fan by people improvising and saving the day. Heck, I've been the one improvising before. . .
3) I'm pretty sure the people in my FC feel a sense of accomplishment progressing to where we have in raiding. We don't have T5 down yet, but each time a new turn's been completed, I've seen everyone getting excited to push on.

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Originally Posted by Simaril

Yes, there are some gear checks, supposedly Titan HM is one…

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Titan is mostly about dodging and staying alive (not gear), and be able to do your heals or attacks at the same time, except for the tank.
CT is mostly a communication and coordination check. Regardless of gear and skill, it can go horribly if people start too early and leave others locked out. Or if somebody is new and he doesn't ask or is not helped. A noob tank putting Valefor's tail against his team or other team, people killing the Platinals on top of each other, etc.

Temple of qarn has some non-dodge mechanics. Run to platform to cleanse doom. Kill Qarns while they are on platform.
Aurum vale too. Eating fruit to cleanse the debuff is vital, an requires no dance.
Caduceus in turn 1 also has non dodge mechanics. Feeding him slimes and the requirement to kill the split snakes at same time.

If even all that sounds like too much work for you, and u just wanna stand there and dps, you might like garuda extreme as ranged class. U literally walk here, attack this, walk there, attack that. Positioning is important but theres hardly any dodging involved for me as bard.

Pardon my selective quotes…

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Originally Posted by HailZenberg

I think the one thing that is difficult to convey, in the case of a game like EQ1, was that you were part of a team, that had grown and bonded together through time and challenges.
Even when my role in a boss fight was limited in time (say as 3rd tank in a tank rotation) I was always enjoying the raids because the stakes were high, the people I was raiding with were mates who I cared for. You wanted to make sure you did everything you could for the success of your team and the feeling of accomplishment was amazing. I was never bored.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I've seen all of that happen in XIV, even though it's more mechanics-oriented, though.
1) You can't tell me that static groups don't grow together as a team. That's practically the point of a static team.
2) I've seen and heard of raids and dungeons being saved after the **** hits the fan by people improvising and saving the day. Heck, I've been the one improvising before. . .
3) I'm pretty sure the people in my FC feel a sense of accomplishment progressing to where we have in raiding. We don't have T5 down yet, but each time a new turn's been completed, I've seen everyone getting excited to push on.

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On point #1 - I haven’t needed a static group for anything yet. You can pretty much solo everything except dungeons. So groups in general and static groups have been seriously de-emphasized, until the very endgame. In older MMOs you either couldn’t solo level, or it was very hard - so building relationships was part of the game… not something you had to figure out just before the final bit of content.

My issue on the 2nd and 3rd points is that there’s no risk… and no worries about epic failure (just try again in a few seconds). Improvising and success are great, but it’s different when there’s greater risk. Loss of XP or levels, a long run back, and herding cats made you make sure you had a reliable group who brought their A-game. Because those downsides weren’t terribly ‘fun’ you did everything you could to be absolutely prepared. I think that also mode those communities better than the superficial interactions that can get you through everything except X modes and T5

The social aspect is suffering because people are no longer willing to put time in to organising like you describe for EQ. People have far too many other things to do these days. They want to log on, get their raids done and get on with their lives.. but I (and many others) will agree that in FFXIV's case there's maybe a little too little to do as most of the "hardcore" can clear all their weekly content in a few hours then have nothing left to do. This is both a plus and a minus, and in today's market it's mostly a plus. Square's just catering to the majority.

I will also agree that don't stand in the fire is a boring mechanic. There's lots more interesting mechanics that can be put in. We've seen some really interesting fights from other MMOs. One thing though is that Yoshi and gang seem to be quite receptive and apparently listen to the playerbase.. we've seen some pretty big improvements in the last few patches and I believe more interesting fights will definitely be on their way.

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Originally Posted by Simaril

My issue on the 2nd and 3rd points is that there’s no risk… and no worries about epic failure (just try again in a few seconds). Improvising and success are great, but it’s different when there’s greater risk. Loss of XP or levels, a long run back, and herding cats made you make sure you had a reliable group who brought their A-game. Because those downsides weren’t terribly ‘fun’ you did everything you could to be absolutely prepared. I think that also mode those communities better than the superficial interactions that can get you through everything except X modes and T5

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Those of us who aren't WHMs have absolutely no guarantee that we'll be able to try again in "a few seconds." Heck, even in static groups there's no real guarantee that the run won't be called early or that someone playing sub-par won't be rotated out.

Don't get me wrong, I fully realize that the social aspect has been de-emphasized. That doesn't mean it isn't present. And the fact that the game will send you back to the start of the dungeon with no weakness when you die doesn't mean you can just graveyard zerg the fights. Nor does it mean that you don't have to put forth effort. As a DD, if I go into Titan EX playing like crap the group will either kick me or abandon, then I have to sit through a god-knows-how-long queue all over again. It's not consequence-free.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Temple of qarn has some non-dodge mechanics. Run to platform to cleanse doom. Kill Qarns while they are on platform.
Aurum vale too. Eating fruit to cleanse the debuff is vital, an requires no dance.
Caduceus in turn 1 also has non dodge mechanics. Feeding him slimes and the requirement to kill the split snakes at same time.

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Honestly I would love more stuff like that or Garuda X less stuff like Titan. Stuff that requires thought or a job(carrying slimes, using stun, silence, slow or debuffs). Mog for example was challenging and fun. You could figure out how to do a order all your own, and you dodged without needing a millisecond to do so.
I hear they are going to make turn 6-10 like Titan a dodge fest. Which I pray will not be true, but it is rumor. Just please dont be true