Real class balance feedback please

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Different players check different sources. Last time I checked with my sources, bad players still infest this game and make dumbass arguments about doing 0 DPS with full mana.

The other players who aren't delusional realize that an infinite resource pool for one class and no other class leads to overall game design issues and constraints in the long haul, even if the issues are not seen in big ways with present content.

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Thats a bit unnecessary there guy. How would you like to see Black Mage set up then? With aspir and Drain? Or maybe with a really strong MP regen like SCH has? Or maybe some Aetherflow? The fact of the matter is that BLM is just as balanced as the other classes. No more, no less. Just because it's the FOTM because of all the WP SR doesn't mean it's by any way or means "broken".

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How would you like to see Black Mage set up then?

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I'm not being paid to design this game.

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The fact of the matter is that BLM is just as balanced as the other classes. No more, no less.

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Um, no.

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Just because it's the FOTM because of all the WP SR doesn't mean it's by any way or means "broken".

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Lol?

Too much e-peen in this thread.

On topic, overall class balance is pretty good. There's simply too many variables for every class to perform equally, but all classes are viable in all content.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

My average autoattack is 200. No wonder BLMs do so much more DPS. Their Fire does more damage than my autoattack! I have seen the light!

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This guy... is kind of an dick. Dragoons maintaining their reputation per usual I see.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

I was thinking about all these discussions this morning, and was wondering to myself, "why does anyone care? These people are maybe some of the best players playing, many have killed T5, why do they care?"

So I came up with a few answers.

1. They care so much about their personal dps because they want to be the best they can be. Thats pretty noble in a way, but then I want to ask, say your class is the lowest (or the highest) dps. Why does it matter? If you are doing as well as your class can possibly do, noone is going to fault you.

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That point is why that one website worldoflogs.com for WoW was so great. You parse your dmg, upload it to a site, and you can rank yourself vs people of the same class/spec.

One thing I'd like to point out about one class being inherently weaker than another... The top damage a class can do is based on being the best player being able to play perfectly. The fact of the matter is very few people play at that level and just because you play a class that is "weaker" than another class, you can still easily outdamage a large majority of people playing the "stronger" class. So basically, choose the class you like to play and learn to be the best you can be with it and you will most likely out damage any class out there. In wow I was an enh shaman and that was middle of the road dps according to charts and theory crafting. However, I had gotten to the point where I was out damaging most people of any given class even if their gear was 30 IL higher than me. I'm sure given enough practice, the same can be done in this game.

Now as for why I enjoy being able to do that (to answer your question), I take a little pride in how I play my character. I know it's odd to see someone say they take pride in a video game, but like many things in my life, when I do something I try to be the best at it. So when I play dps in an mmorpg, I try to be the best I can be. Also, I've learned that if you yourself are really good and you are out damaging people in your group, especially if it's a set group playing with people you play with all the time, then the other dps get inspired and try to play better so they can top your damage. During firelands I remember this hunter in my raid group in wow would only do 15k dps. I joined the group and played with the group for a while and he saw me always sitting at 28-35k in lesser gear than him. It inspired him to learn how to play his class and after a few weeks his dps jumped up to an average of 25-28k. Another good thing about being really good at dps is it sort of becomes a game within the dps players of the group - when you have really good dps, the dps try to out dps the other guys while staying alive. It in turn makes raiding more entertaining when you are constantly fighting for that top spot so you can have bragging rights for that night.

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Originally Posted by Genesiser

In wow I was an enh shaman and that was middle of the road dps according to charts and theory crafting. However, I had gotten to the point where I was out damaging most people of any given class even if their gear was 30 IL higher than me. I'm sure given enough practice, the same can be done in this game.

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That's because you were playing with people that sucked at the game. When you play with people who are all skilled, you are limited by how well your class performs. I used to run the PvP raid bosses in WoW while doing really ridiculous things like using white vendor weapons. I still outdamaged a ton of people in the raid, even though they should have been crushing me. That doesn't mean vendor weapons are ok, it just means the other people in the group were awful.

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

That's because you were playing with people that sucked at the game. When you play with people who are all skilled, you are limited by how well your class performs. I used to run the PvP raid bosses in WoW while doing really ridiculous things like using white vendor weapons. I still outdamaged a ton of people in the raid, even though they should have been crushing me. That doesn't mean vendor weapons are ok, it just means the other people in the group were awful.

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I think all he means is that the class balance isn't any more deciding than player skill (and I would add, rng).
For example, a class may perform 10 dps higher than another but that's usually within an acceptable deviation that one might expect from one parse to another(assuming same fight) of a certain class's own dps.

I think the main exception to this will be aoe though. That's not as balanced.
Otherwise, the single target is so close that the difference in dps is probably more decided by gear, skill and rng than it is by class.
Only the top players of the world can really hit the skill and gear cap completely, leaving only rng and class difference to decide dps.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Otherwise, the single target is so close that the difference in dps is probably more decided by gear, skill and rng than it is by class.
Only the top players of the world can really hit the skill and gear cap completely, leaving only rng and class difference to decide dps.

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Modeling and simulation can give us a ballpark in the meantime though!

Here are my thoughts on the four DPS classes that I've played, not DPS wise but what they have to watch out for.

• Bard - it is extremely easy due to lag and late buff display to miss a straighter shot proc. This leads to dps loss. This is the primary thing Bards have to watch. The other thing is their tp. It is very easy (esp when you get lots of straighter procs, or multidotting) to OoTP as a bard. Remember to watch your invigorates. The only other thing to do is mash your bloodletter button between 40% and 60% through every GCD, to ensure you catch all BL procs.
• Summoner - I hate tab targetting so much, and it is difficult at times to keep track of multidotting. I wish there was some way to track them on multiple targets. Other than that, primary concern of summoner is to make sure pet is in correct position, you're using rouse, spur, contagion on cooldown, and you prioritize which dots to keep up. I also always get miasma and bio II confused, I have no idea why.
• BLM - sometimes I forget my mana and don't have enough for blizz. Oops. Other than that...preemtively moving and remembering to use the right thunder is all I had trouble with.
• Monk - Boss turning sucks. Need to watch TP a lot. I don't even use DRG skills because TP sucks. Be good at dancing the flank/backstab line.