Easy for you, yes.
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Easy for you, yes.
There is indeed a large amount of crappy players, but the crappy players tend to be people who just want to be carried (and would probably be better off just watching someone streaming the game than actually playing it) and get some twisted sense of accomplishment by beating other carries to their goals.
If you go into FFXIV with the intent of having fun, you stay off the official forums and stay off all the unofficial sites (eg reddit/4chan 2ch (jp.)) Because that's when you learn about all the horrible behavior. I'm surprised someone didn't write a sitcom based on crappy MMO players.
Ran Pharos Sirius with epic ilvl130 Tank (Full Dreadwyrm and Zeta), and I thought the run would be smooth....
But the reality, losing aggro to one flare from my friend and the mob aggro went haywire...so we wiped like 3x during hard pulls...
Yes, I did spam all my cd's and bene for both hard pulls..
Then he said "Noob Team" after the third wipe...Okay....(Reality Check please?)
But we finished it without any further problems.
Tried it again, this time with iLvl 110'ish Tank (barely have poetics gear)
Pull same amount of mobs, do my part as well. No wipe at all. He can handle 3 flares from my BLM friend no problem.
Guess after clearing t13 a lot of time to get that dreadwyrm gear, doesn't make you a better person =_=;
Kinda ruining my image about pro ppl having dreadwyrm gears are good, but I guess not everyone.
He probably got carried through for gear, bought the account or had the armor from T13 runs but via maining a different class (not that it makes what he said right).
It reminds me of a LoTA run in which one of the tanks had Demon gear but didn't know how to do LoTA and was asking "how do I do this one" for every platfdorm. Only thoughts I had were - he spammed WoD when it came out and forgot how to do LoTA after a long time... He acquired the account somehow (bought or given/borrowed/shared from friends or fam/etc) or he had the gear from rolling in WoD to gear a newbie tank class and didn't know how to tank LoTA (could have been a DPS or healer that just leveled up tank and had the gear already).
I had what I think is every healer's nightmare, last night... network issues in the middle of an fight. -_- Levi, no less (surprised I didn't slide overboard during that). I don't know how I managed to get as far as I did (the new, bigger monitor has been <3 for seeing the gysers, now) between just not being in there often and apparently getting the D/C symbol in and out during the whole fight (till my net finally crashed and burned for the rest of the night). I felt bad, as it seemed like a nice group, too. Luckily, I had gone in with an FC mate, so we were texting. Told her to tell them to just kick me and get a new healer that could be reliable in their network (since they had apparently been waiting for me to return o.o T^T).
Luckily, I didn't totally disconnect till we wiped when the last ADD frenzied us (eeehh I forgot the right term).
The funny side, though, at the point where I ended up frenzied, my character started running towards the ledge...... and somehow just -stopped- dead cold at the edge... (I didn't bother looking around, assuming I was done for) and I and my FC mate managed to stay on. I turned the cam to look back and..... no one but she and I were there. o_oa Apparently they all walked right off the boat... so I guess it was rather sudden for everyone. xD; Of course, one WHM and a DRG aren't going beat Levi at that point, and healer LB can't reach those that fell off, so.... we tried for the hell of it anyway and wiped.
we were this || close to starting again to pull when... -boop- "You have been disconnected from server". T^T It happened RIGHT after I selected 'Yes' to the Ready Check...
What gets forgotten is Pharos Sirius is a i110 sync dungeon, so all i130 stats get pushed down to the i110 cap. So I won't judge based on flare pulling aggro, not knowing the circumstances, it is possible the BLM could have went ham on their opener before the tank could secure hate.
I think Technole was referring to Dreadwyrm gear correlated to player skill, rather than the gear's stats (IE, the assumption that if you have Dreadwyrm gear, then you're an awesome [insertclasshere] by player's skill).
I didn't think about if the BLM may have flared before hate was secured... which could be a problem - but if the tank was losing mobs to one flare because he wasn't establishing hate properly - or even fighting for it - then that is a different problem. x.x
Like Technole also mentioned - he went in again with a lesser-geared tank that was able to handle hate better - with assumption that they had less experience as someone in Dreadwyrm gear (again, it's possible they don't main tank and just was just able to gear their tank class). So either there was some other reason or the first tank wasn't dealing with aggro as well as his lesser geared counterpart (regardless of ilvl sync). It's possible he wasn't keeping hate levels up on all the mobs, and instead focusing on one or a few of the mob (or just hadn't cycled through all yet) - and the BLM's AoEs tore the rest off.
Yeah, I'm just scared and kinda dissapointed if t13 will become "carry-me-till-full-dreadwyrm". But maybe you're right, it's probably not his main or else.
Also that network connection part, well I feel the same. Quite often I get disconnected during heavy pulls =.=
Yeah, I know it's synced down. :) But well, I think it's the matter of the player, not gear-wise completely.
Yep, I know it's synced down. Like I said, it's just the matter of the player perspective. Not really the gear-wise in the end.
For the flare part, I looked at everyone's HP bar (and buff) after the 2nd wipe (which I normally do, to check if there's anything else causing the wipe or myself not healing fast enough); he turn on Quelling Strikes in the 2nd and 3rd...so yeah... ._.
Yep, maybe I just need to rephrase my sentence I guess. Not everyone get what I'm trying to say :/
That's the main reason I don't want to tank post 50 dungeons, I have dreadwyrm gear for my tank because in my static everyone that plays tank has the gear already, so instead of letting it fall on the floor the other people that have tank gets it... If I were to tank some dungeon I would probably be a loltank or something... better I stick to dps or healing xD
Seen this loads lately i think since it became easier to carry in final coil loads more carry groups popped up and prices went down so everyone and his Mother have some Dreadwyrm if they have the Gil to pay for it. Seems all i encounter in EXDR or random DF EX Primal runs lately are these entitled Tanks with some Dreadwyrm who are awful and when you call them out they start inspecting you like "Oh nice raid gear lololol" and the sad thing is a lot of people in DF think gear = good so they go along with whatever that Tank is saying even if things are their fault.
Best Tank i ever encountered in EXDR was barely over the minimum ilvl for it but they were a beast. Hardly took damage and even going all out with Holy i could not pull aggro off them and nor could a BLM or heavily geared NIN. It puts a lot in perspective when some max geared Tank loses aggro and starts calling everyone else noobs.
Probably an alt tank job that doesn't play their tank well. It's the same with other jobs. I wouldn't say carry, as it's not hard to get alt job gear compared to when FCoB was loot-locked weekly.
Most of the time you can probably tell it's not a main if they have disparate ilvl gear present. Like seen an i100 waist and arms but have the i130 dread chest. Or this subpar WHM in WoD with the i130 dread chest but using a i110 Yagrush, and how surprised they were on how much MP holy costs, lol.
Like I have a full Dreadwyrm set for my WAR, yet it's not my main but I'm not afraid of being judged based on inspection and that it is because I know I can tank.
Hrm... yea, I've got those tanks as well...
Speaking of entitled bad Tanks, yesterday I went to the Ex roulette and since I was a bit laggy, yup, BLM time!!
My BLM heals more than my healers anyway.
So, got into Wanderer's Palace HM and most of the dun was going alright, noticed the tank was being a bit inconsistent with their pulls. Not even once I failed to get one of them munching on my face after the first Flare =-= ... well, limited myself to only one, since I can do up to 4 in a row... buuut no.
Then as we go advancing, we manage to down the 2nd boss, and then Tank decides to run ahead without waiting for buffs, again... you know, this part were there are 2 sets of mamool ja (I think thats how they are called) right before the poison zone that ends at a prison place after a sharp turn, right? If you arent close enough to the tank by then healing the peak damage can become an issue. Weeeeell, turns out our healer was like 50 meters behind D:
So they kind of didnt make it in time and all the tank says once all our innards are decorating the floor is "wtf". Whaaaatever, we come back to the starting point healer starts casting protect, TANK RUNS AWAY WOOO... soooo no stoneskin I guess /shrug...
We finally down everything even the final boss, to which our healer, being a first timer as I noticed, lagged behind and got stunned a few times because BIG CONE, no wipes at it or deaths even so it was an acceptable fight, but then the Tank comes out saying "healer you suck" and "be a slave healer" and stuff... geez =-=
We just told the healer "and thats an example of a terrible tank".
I mean... every single mob was munching my face after 1 Flare and we didnt die at anything but that one rushed up pull the tank did going too far ahead... geez... humans :/
I'm starting to think that the less toxic version of this sort of tank truly doesn't understand that they should be making efforts to work with the party.
A few weeks ago I queued up for Expert as WHM. As soon as we all pop in, the DF tank looks at my Dreadwyrm Cane WHM and exclaims "omg yes the healer has Final Witness, they won't suck." I prepared myself for some shenanigans.
The tank actually wasn't anywhere close to bad, but he took a lot of risks that could easily have gotten him killed if I hadn't been prepared to handle things. This kind of tank has high expectations that the healer should be good enough to enable them to survive damned near anything and sometimes forgets that even a "good" healer might not be on the same page with them, so perhaps pulling multiple rooms without HG/Holmgang and stopping at half HP when the WHM has both Shroud and Bene on cooldown might create a situation that an average-geared healer prepared to do a dungeon at an average pace would be unable to manage.
Not always with Tank either, but every class.
If I see you in Dreadwyrm the first thing that comes up to my head is the word "Elitist" honestly. I know, I know that some of you had cleared it yourself and are not elitists at all but the impression I got from those full set Dreadwyrm? Not very pleasant.
Considering you have cleared all of coils and gone through the hardest content, why can't you be patient when a party wipes? Because noobs?
Guess what? You were also once a noob and screwed up hard.
/end of rant
Being put into a half made farm party in roulette and chasing after them while using swiftcast protect...
I'm actually quite patient on Duty Finder wipes, as usually people know what the issue(s) were or you got people seeing the content for the first time even if they read/watched up on it.
I was doing Titan EX in DF a few weeks ago for the fun of it and it took a few wipes to get it cleared. After each one I mentioned some simple feedback without emotion. Like we needed the healer gaol broken as soon as the knockback occurs because we kept dying to that, killing the adds on the east side to avoid sludge mess, then another how some people should "get inside" the dodge bomb during the X/+ pattern to avoid the lethal damage. There wasn't much I can really say about not falling off aside from being attentive and being at the right place, people generally know how that works. But every now and then you get some hasty person saying how bad someone is at dodging or what not, I ignore it.
Now compare this to when I hosted Titan EX farm parties for ponies, in which I believe the tolerance for mistakes is much lower because it is expected everyone has the content on the "I got this!" level. Sure, crap happens sometimes and that is ok even with a full competent party but overall the runs are clears without full wipes.
That moment when you derp the simpliest raid mechanic and look like an idiot. /atomicfacepalm
So for once I saw the other side of the spectrum...
Trial Roulette: Mog.
After one wipe, Healer comments: "just keep the boss away from munching the healer's face"
Healer then casts Medica II before we even start :|
Mogs run their way (I wonder why :v)
Hell, even king runs the way a min later
Healer dies
Healer comments: "are you guys new to this fight?"
... I need a /facepalm ... =___(\
They didn't even notice the tanks were undergeared in comparison to them... I mean, tanking Medica II prepull is already troublesome on similar level :/
http://rs1img.memecdn.com/i-feel-you-bro_o_153507.jpg
It's rare, but I've had such things happen to me too.
My healing horror story was....me. Levelling whm, I main tank. Had been grinding all day and was 3am, should have gone to bed. Rolled low level dr and got cutters, never healed it before. Tank starts off and pulls first 3 mobs and marks them. DPS attacks wrong mark and grabs hate, tank ignores him, which is fair enough, I decide to ignore him as well and let him fight it out. As his health drops, I have a change of mind and go to heal him...too late he dies. I focus back on the tank, oops...health low.....he drops.
3 mobs in and all hell is breaking loose.. Moral of the story, sleep before playing healer, this aint no simple dps role here!
I have plenty of stories that were just epic fails or moments of pure rage for me as the healer. Most were on trials like Ramuh or Shiva EX. One in particular happened on Ramuh EX where both tanks didn't collect the orbs and got one shot killed, so this dps goes and says, "Where are the healers?" Uh...we're over here having a tea party obviously, totally not raising our dumbass tanks and dps who cant dodge or not stack on each other when lightning bolts strike. Healers get the shit end of the stick most of the time, we're damned if we heal and damned if we try to dps when everyone's HP is full.
I was in TotoFuck as whm. After he pulled second group of mobs tank stops and says "healer why aren't you healing me"
"Wat"
"My health was half down. Kick this shit healer"
Everyone ignored him and when he finally pulled the next mobs I left when his hp was half empty I guess I was a sick but I can't even. This happens too often.
Playing as healer really makes me hate people in this game sometimes, and I'm thinking of retiring from the healer role. Why support others who in no way support you? Example first time I ran Qarn HM- said it was first time- tank pulls all the way to the first boss and the incoming damage has him going from full to < 25% HP every second or so, I had to blow through all my Lustrates and cooldowns in the first 10 seconds and still not the amount of incoming damage was enough to lower his HP to from full to almost nothing in well under 1 GCD. I told him the pull was too big for the level we were geared at and there was just too much incoming damage, and we ended up wiping. The tank was like- great I guess we have to do this the slow way as if it's my fault and I'm only capable of handling one enemy at a time. Oh and this is where he finally said it was his first time.
I'm like wait a minute, you've never run this dungeon and yet with no knowledge of what's here you expect me to be able to heal through anything you pull regardless of how much damage it puts out? And he said yeah and that he'd have been able to do it, because he'd healed pulls up to the first boss on AK and Halatali (or maybe it was Brayflox HM, doesn't matter because it's not the same damn dungeon). People act like tanks do all the hard work in these lvl 50 dungeons when all half of them do is run through pulling everything like a level 30 player running through Sylphlands and expecting the healer to keep them up no matter what they pull. Of course the DPS's don't say anything, we clear the dungeon with me keeping everyone healed except the tank died once when he didn't leave the quicksand and went all the way under. 0 commendations of course which is kind of an FU to healers in that situation, I expected none from the tank of course because he was a total asshole, but it's an annoying thing when you have to go on the defensive from another player, do your job really well (first time no less) and get 0 kind of support from anyone.
And this is why from now on, I will have no second thoughts about abandoning teams such as this the first time the tank even looks at me the wrong way. The DPS's can wait 45 min in queue all over again if they want because it's not like they're so supportive when you get an asshole tank and they just stand in the background and blend in.
I haven't really had many horror moments on this character thankfully, for the most part everyone has been encouraging and patient when I say I'm new to a dungeon or whatever. But I started another healing character on a different server to level with my husband on his days off and we've yet to have a good group. Last night we unlock Thousand Maws so we queue for it. From the first, the tank focuses on only one mob. I get yelled at when I pull hate (I waited to cure until he was at 30%). We make it to the boss that slows, and of course I get the adds. Tank won't grab them. Other dps has a tank so he's trying to explain what moves he should be using, and he gets yelled at too. Tank says he already knows what he's doing so stfu. Meanwhile, chat is also being flooded with *Tank beckons to mob* over and over again. That was him trying to take the adds off of me. I tried to tell him that wouldn't work, but he was having none of it. It was kind of amusing. I don't know how we cleared it.
That is... horrible. You should have kicked that tank. Being new is fine, asking for help is fine, yelling at party members and not accepting advice is not okay. You lot would have been better off 3-manning it. [EDIT] The more I think about it, part of me thinks maybe he did it on purpose. Someone else was telling him what to do, so he got all defensive and maybe thought something like, "They want me to get the attention of mobs?! Oh yeah, I'll do just that! /beckon". Still think you should have kicked him. :x
I've never seen a tank use /beckon in an attempt to draw hate though (kind of reminds me of an action MMO I used to play where we didn't have the typical tank/dps/healer roles and one fight had a mechanic where you had to knock the boss off a cliff, but without typical aggro he'd just run around attacking whoever he wanted. It was discovered that the class that could block damage and stand still could lure the boss to the edge by spamming f11 (which was the sit emote) and then the rest of the party (if they had half a brain and decent aim) would knock the boss off the cliff). I guess someone was leveling via levequests. I kind of worry what low level roulette is going to be like when I attempt to play Astro now, LOL.
.....
...immediately after reading this, I couldn't help but hold in a snort, look away from the monitor and slowly cover my eyes with my hands....
http://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg?fb
./soothe
That's pretty common it's the old MMO mentality that the Tank is super important so the DPS are scared to stand up to them. In some older games the Tanks were usually leaders of statics and expected to lead a party in a random group they still kind of are so they get away with a lot more because people feel if the Tank leaves they will have a long wait and it's usually true. Been in that exact same situation more times than i can count and it's even worse if they have some DPS sidekick who is up their backside because they want fast queues so then the two of them gang up on you even though the Tank is in the wrong. With experience you can pretty much carry a bad group but they shouldn't expect it from a new Healer when the Tank is also new. An experienced Tank will make things really easy on you because they know how to handle incoming damage. Just don't expect commendations if you carry a run most people won't even notice because of the stigma that your job is easy and they just expect you to be able to work miracles.
There are just a lot of assholes in the game I mean I'm no saint by any means and i lose my temper with people but some people seem to be in jerk mode 24/7. Encountered certain Tanks multiple times that are just horrible people in denial about how bad they are. Also got no love for people who feel the need to be jerks when you are trying to help them.
Had this issue in a random Titan PuG in progress the Tank was new and I wanted to stay and help them so we start and the first pull ends in a wipe pretty fast. I was explaining how after Titan jumps what often happens is the healers throw a heal out for the damage and pull Titan because the aggro is different. I said the aggro resets which is what I always thought is what is happening because if i throw a heal out after he jumps i often almost have aggro so it's better if the Tank taunts him before i do it and some DRG was being really bitchy like "lolol the aggro doesn't reset you dumb bitch" I mean regardless if that is or is not a particular fact I'm just trying to help the Tank not lose aggro after a jump then he's like "If you want to help don't give false information" so i just gave up on helping. Had situations where the person I am trying to help is also not very nice about it and starts being abusive it's like "I'm trying to help you why are you calling me names!?" XD.
http://images.onesite.com/capcom-uni...1.jpg?v=270000
That... that is not how a provoke macro works...
Seriously, what was that tank thinking? *Tosses you a cookie for having to endure that "tank"*
Thanks for sharing; I'm trying to keep an open mind and not build an anti-tank bias by reminding myself that there's people who play the tank role true how to it's intended to be played, and then there's people who are really just going into a dungeon as a 'third DPS' wearing tank gear for the instant queue and the knowledge that they will have a player primarily healing them no matter what they do. If this was my first character I'd probably think the problem was me... however, I have enough experience on my main to know what's reasonable and what isn't, and for a tank to think they can simply pull from start to the first boss on any dungeon out there regardless of what it is, and without themselves knowing what types of enemies to expect, is rediculous. My first Brayflox HM run on my alt, I was maybe i89 and had soldiery bonus appear on me, told them it was me who was the first timer and I was i89 and still working hard to gear up.. and that dungeon was released intended for people geared at that level... the tank pulled up to the first boss (only doing lockout with 3 enemies) and I healed through it fine even at that level. So I know how to heal through large pulls... and I also know there are situations where the damage is more than even someone geared at max for level synch can do.
Speaking of level synch, my second or third time healing Halatali HM on that character (because I stuck with the dungeons around my ilvl until I had higher level gear) the tank was at 120+ and pulled everything. After we wiped I reminded him that I was just at like i90 and unlike him below the level synch. He told me that wasn't a problem since it would have synched me up to his level. <sigh>
Oh let me show you what happens when I don't queue as healer...
http://www.twitch.tv/kisaitenshi/b/667092080
Yeah... oh this party looks fine, 5 minutes later *psyche* nobody wants to be a tank. 8 minute mark, all tanks are dead.
Now what you wouldn't know is that half the people in that alliance B are certainly from my server with all the trolls on it, at least those spamming the alliance chat are.
Compare with a non-stupid run. Hey look even the healers get to DPS.
http://www.twitch.tv/kisaitenshi/b/667097540
This horror comes from the real world -.- I was running WP HM as my scholar and was getting hit repeatedly with lag spikes as the tank was grabbing big mobs O.O was spamming all my buttons in hope something would get through. We get to the first boss and I got hit with a spike that felt like it lasted at least 30 seconds (probably closer to 10 to 15) surprisingly no one died during the boss. There was 1 or 2 wipes through the run spike starts tanks hp full everything returns to real time oh crap tank nearly dead spam lustrate... So now I know healing when getting hit with lag is going to cause fun times :rolleyes:
Was doing T5 again, last night, to help a LS person's friend clear (I didn't learn the first time, what happens when I go in there while tired).
First go, everyone decided to stand under Twin so they were taking dragon flops to the face while standing in the liquid hell..... and that was just right out of the gate x_x;
And then I derped a twister by over concentrating on healing the tank (I seem to do this often, right after her nerve link AoE, AND telling myself to 'Cure3 and spread out for twisters', for some unknown reason.... I guess I don't transition well).
Second time I got slapped by twisters, was just..... weird. I avoided the twisters cast and gave them space, went to cure the tank and someone ran into or got too close to the nearby twisters.... two people blew up and I got..... tossed sideways into the deathwall (instead of in the air). o_O Wasn't close enough to the twister to get tossed up, I guess, but still enough to get sling shot across the arena like a divebomb...
The last attempt I saw pretty much everyone but the tank and I (I like to babysit the outer rim during the twister/deathknight phase, these days... *learns things!*) fly sky high all at once....
And all I'm thinking is,
http://rack.0.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyM...4a4/Beaker.gif
AAAHHH PANICRAISEOTHERHEALEROHGADOHGADOHGAD
Everyone was tired at this point, so I can't blame them x.x (and I was the first to derp a twister - I'm anything but innocent. I've moved my focus target bar in the literal middle of my screen, since -.- I don't know how many times I've moved that damn thing around since this new monitor)