History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

so your rebuttle against other implementations is that they are stupid.

You know, the funny thing is, WoW doesn't have this problem....

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Classically, mages have been stupidly designed in MMOs and thus they run amok at endgame for the same reasons archer classes do.

I have stated exactly how to nerf archers. Cut their damage output by 1/3. Just because your affected and biased opinion doesn't dictate that's valid doesn't mean anyone should listen to you. Why is that not valid? Just because you say so apparenly. I've already told you why it is in fact valid, because 3 archers, generates 33%*3=100% of a phantom meleer. And that argument promptly goes straight over your heads.

I've said that three three times now. I don't know how to say it any clearer to you all.

Would you rather we just ban your ass if you show up with 6 archers in your party at a raid because at that point you've proven yourself a chronic threat to the game's balance? What do you want? As long as there is no functional point in a meleer, you're getting something here. Because you can't handle the responsibility of that imbalance without turning the product to crap just like your forefathers did to FFXI.

So what do you want? "Nothing" isn't an option. You are not mature enough to handle that option. Sooner or later you will ditch as many lancers, pugs, and marauders as you can. When the AoEs get hard. When the paralyze gets too severe. You'll cop out and get your archers on.

To prevent that inevitable failure on your part, you should be nerfed now so you CAN'T fail like that. So how do YOU want it?

My guess is that half of you secretly love the idea of eventually being the in-demand, doted-on job, charging pugs to kill the dragon, telling lancers to go sit in a corner. Telling marauders to go level something useful to endgame if they want in your endgame shells.

Half of you all want that world back, because you know 80% of the game's population will not give in like you and just level whatever broken trash job gets them attention and glory. They WILL sit there as a pugilist and take it as opposed to playing like you. And that makes you all the more in-demand. If SE makes all the meleers your equals, then you're no longer special and in-demand.

That's what most of you really want in archer. You only play ranged attackers in MMOs because ranged attackers always get special consideration and attention in their endgame design.

And that's just a sad reason to play a job. For attention.

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Once again thats not a solution and just shows u dont know the mechanics of archer, my views are not biased as i prefer to play lancer, i only ranked up archer for the reduced threat skill and raging strike II (as i feel archer is rather boring to play). You calling my views biased is just ignorant. Simply stating to reduce their damage by 1/3 is not a solution, your unable to provide a smart way to reduce their damage output other than saying to reduce their dmg they do by 1/3 . This shows you havent even thought about damage types and how some mobs are more susceptible to certain damage types than others. i had already stated my suggestion for reducing archer output such as making multishot only usable while out of combat since alot of damage comes from doing a buffed multishot and you still criticized it lol.

No one class needs a nerf, the class system as a whole needs balance and class definition. We know class definition is on the way, we know they're changing it in some way. I would hope part of that is balancing out the classes.

If damage is all equal against a single target then Archer would become fairly obsolete. Pugilist can do constant, sustained damage. Lancer is great for line-of-sight damage. Marauder has tons of cone AoE damage. The only thing Archer affords is convenience to the player for not getting hurt. The only function I can see an Archer fulfilling would be incapacitation from a safe distance. My only problem is if say an Archer does the same damage to a single target as a Marauder does, why bring the Archer? Marauder has tons of AoE skills, you'll hit more enemies for the same damage.

The classes need their roles and specializations. Outside of pure damage dealing abilities there needs to be a reason to bring one class over the other.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

If you can't handle not playing a broken archer, maybe you need to quit instead of archer. Archer will be just fine without the chronic kinds of players who always look for it to be overpowered, or else they whine cry and quit.

There'd be a point for archer in the game. Just not for YOU to play it.

Being the top DD isn't the only thing you can do. You can avoid all AoE damage and debilitations. Sorry. Don't think that's an advantage? That's your ignorance to be fixed, because if you played FFXI from 2002-2007, you honestly can't argue that it's not an advantage unless you're just blatantly oblivious.

Don't make the mistake of posturing that archer would be nothing without YOUR vision of archer governing it. Square Enix already made it clear that if they have to choose between you and a balanced archer, they won't choose you.

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I already have another class to play. Your solution is not viable. As I have pointed out several times if you take away an archers DD you need to give them something to make them of value to a party. That's what balancing is. What you're asking for is not balanced.

Hey guys remember pre-Ranger nerf in FFXI when all the HNM groups were rolling with RDM+RNG only parties? Oh wait, that didn't happen because it's all in Peregrine's head. XIV's class composition woes are entirely encounter design and overall system design flaws and the solution's not "nerf THM and ARC".

The current system and encounters are prone to class-stacking because they don't require anything more than raw generic damage and because stats in general are completely broken such that actual "tank" classes aren't taking significantly less damage than others and are only useful for their larger HP pool.

Your nerf "solution" would merely suggest to players that "hey, you can bring other classes... if you feel like it" (which they can now anyway since the content is so easy that only OCD minmaxers or terrible players need to stack ARC) and doesn't actually do anything to fix the real problem of all damage being generic and interchangeable.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Hey guys remember pre-Ranger nerf in FFXI when all the HNM groups were rolling with RDM+RNG only parties? Oh wait, that didn't happen because it's all in Peregrine's head.

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Now if that isn't the most ignorant post in the thread...
Your typical fafnir party went:

Pld, pld, whm, rdm, brd, brd.
Blm, Blm, Blm, Blm, Rdm, Brd.
Rng, Rng, Rng, Whm, Rng, Brd.

Thief in the corner ready to be swapped in.
Rest of the meleers just straight ****in wherever. A fly party for all anyone cared.

You fail. If you even played XI before ToAU, you sure as hell weren't paying attention. Not that most english speakers would know. Game was mostly fixed by the time most of you all showed up to Fafnir with a decent shot at getting it. Post-DAT patch, for sure.

Every last offensive job in that setup claimed they "earned their positions" just like you all are. And every last one of them was beaten within an inch of their lives with a nerf bat for it.

Friendly reminder:

This is a troll thread. After 49 pages of discussion only 11 people have thumbed it up. If you stop posting in it, it will go away.


(Yes, I posted in it to tell you this, hopefully for the greater good.)

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Now if that isn't the most ignorant post in the thread...
Your typical fafnir party went:

Pld, pld, whm, rdm, brd, brd.
Blm, Blm, Blm, Blm, Rdm, Brd.
Rng, Rng, Rng, Whm, Rng, Brd.
Thief in the corner ready to be swapped in.
Rest of the meleers just straight ****in wherever. A fly party for all anyone cared.

You fail. If you even played XI before ToAU, you sure as hell weren't paying attention. Not that most english speakers would know. Game was mostly fixed by the time most of you all showed up to Fafnir with a decent shot at getting it. Post-DAT patch, for sure.

Every last offensive job in that setup claimed they "earned their positions" just like you all are. And every last one of them was beaten within an inch of their lives with a nerf bat for it.

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Bring Rng to Fafnir, right that is really smart.

let this thread die. It's just 1 guy vs everyone else.