Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by Senn

Sounds more like you're the one throwing a tantrum here. This thread was made with the intent of requesting male viera. Nothing else - no whining, complaining, or anything else in the OP. If viera and hrothgar isn't your thing, that's fine. If you want a bird race, go make your own thread. You've had years to do so.

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Except, going back and looking through this thread, it went:

"Its sexist and not lgbt friendly for not adding the other sex"

"If they dont add the other sex, im going to end my sub because this is problematic and SE lied"

"I'm going to blatantly ignore the live letter and just interpret it as Yoshi saying that it will happen, just not now instead of what was actually said which was its not in the works now, but if something changes we may add it"

I'm not even against them adding it, but this thread has indeed been a huge whine fest about the whole ordeal.

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Originally Posted by Sei_Konsetsu

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Yeah, but it's not the OP.
Some people come here to whine. Address those people on an individual basis instead of generalizing an entire group.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

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And I know a fair amount of people who would be glad to have them in the game, so confirmation bias there. Also, Keeper of the Moon lore.
You can be mad about not having your bird race and make a thread requesting it, get your support instead of putting others down :D
You also say "nobody specified" and it's demonstrably untrue in the Viera request threads. Ivalice Alliance lore is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

That said, i do kind of understand why there is an aversion to the males being added due to the lore. But that "Ivalice Lore" has already been doctored heavily for the raid series - which invalidates the position.

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I'm agreeing with you, just checklisting the ways Ivalice Lore was changed for Return to Ivalice:

-Ba'Gamnan and his crew were Rabanastran Fusiliers instead of Bounty Hunters, in RtI they worked directly for Princess Ashe, whom they tried to kill in 12 alongside Balthier.
-Fran is now a general of the Resistance instead of a Sky Pirate, Balthier is nowhere to be seen. Her faction of the Resistance is called Lente's Tear, an item given to the party by Jote in XII so they can traverse Golmore Jungle.
-Orbonne Monastery is now in an island in the middle of Golmore, the Viera guard the place but do not enter. In the Ivalice Alliance games, Orbonne is on an island in the region of Lesalia, and built centuries after the Cataclysm that wiped out every non-hume race.
-Orran married Alma and fathered a child that would carry on the Beoulve bloodline and Durai name, Alma disappeared alongside Ramza's party in Tactics, Delita was not aware of Alma's survival nor (probably) the Durai papers.
-Ashe and Rassler are twins instead of lovers, Ba'Gamnan mentions being there at the time of Ashe's death but Fran's comment about the leader of the resistance hints at her survival (a reference to XII, if true, but unlikely to be developed further).
-Goug being built on top of the Ridoranna Lighthouse, at sky level. In Tactics, Goug is on top of an archeological site, at ground level, away from any Cataracts.
-The mere fact that most of the "Tactics" plotline happens before the "XII" plotline when XII is in the distant past to Tactics.
-The way Auracite is handled in this game in general. Instead of the 12 Zodiac Stones, the RtI Auracite is only sorta referenced as the zodiacs.
-Espers being some sort of souped up Primals created by the auracite instead of God-created beings.
(There are many more I may be forgetting, feel free to remind me)

So it's even more than irrelevant to say Ivalice Lore should be some holy scripture for this game when it already changed so much and the Ivalice games were not retconned at all just because Matsuno, Yoshi-P, and team carved a little Ivalice-shaped niche into Hydaelin.

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Originally Posted by Sei_Konsetsu

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How many times must it be said to not knock the message because of a few people? Swear to gods I said as much like 3 pages back.

P.S. The thread was also started right after Hrothgar and the gender-lock reveal, so emotions were high and there was a lack of information about the reasons for said decision. A fair number of people chilled out when the news kept coming and we weren't so in the dark. And the one poster I believe you're quoting on "ignoring the live letter" does get repeatedly reminded that it's not a certain yes, by other Viera supporters.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Male Viera are never seen so you never really know what they look like they could be heavy set and short look nothing like fran nobody knows remember the drawings were just test far as I am concerned the only rabbit male i have ever seen Square enix made was the dude from legend of mana.

The Viera live deep within the woods; male and female Viera live separately from each other and only make contact and communication when the need arises

lion women now since its new I could see a girl version being made.

you say it was in high demand I know a lot of people who do not even want it in the game because it breaks FF12's lore and as for threats I believe they mean when they are in dire need, just doesn't make sense to have them walking around freely.

Viera was asked for nobody specified and since 12 Viera was a female that's exactly what they got.

they believe its not good enough well how about this, I want bird race since 1.0 ffxiv before the poll existed should I get what I want since I wanted it for years and should I be upset that Viera was added instead of my bird race? if you said no or yes

then they added my bird race over Male viera why would you still be mad?

which begs the question why are peoples needs and wants over others needs and wants you can't do that. you half to meet people half way and that's what they did.

I see the lion race almost like ronso's people wanted that and they got something just like it and people are happy.

why can't people who got Viera be happy nope throw a tantrum because they wanted the whole package not good enough me me me only me nobody else.

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No offense but to me this sounds like you tried to use any excuse (most of which, such as lore, have been proven wrong 197392917229 times already, and there was only people being so aggressive the first day after the fanfest) so we don't get male Viera and you can have your bird race. If you want a bird race what you should be doing is making a thread to get support for them, not telling us to stop complaining and that we shall never get what we want

Considering this may be the last opportunity we will ever have to see a male Viera - yeah, there's a lot of appeal to them really. Would be nice to finally put a face to them after so much lore about the males.

In the end the devs are still considering it and don’t consider the lore to be an adequate reason to block their addition, so what these posters think appears to be at utter odds with what they do.

If you want the ‘mystique’ of female only Viera might I suggest such posters play XII, or some other game in that series, rather than twisting this game’s lore to imply more than it does.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

In the end the devs are still considering it and don’t consider the lore to be an adequate reason to block their addition, so what these posters think appears to be at utter odds with what they do.

If you want the ‘mystique’ of female only Viera might I suggest such posters play XII, or some other game in that series, rather than twisting this game’s lore to imply more than it does.

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I'm with you for most of these but I don't think that thinking of Viera as a primarily female race even within XIV is "twisting this game's lore" by any stretch.

In XIV the only Viera we've seen is female, the playable race is female only (at this point) and the guy on the airship who talks about Viera during the Ivalice raids literally talks about seeing "all manner of wondrous creatures" but "[male Viera] did not exist to us."

Here's a link to all his text to be clear, the part I'm quoting is at the bottom of the first frame.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.red...ng_dramaturge/

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Originally Posted by Sei_Konsetsu

Except, going back and looking through this thread, it went:

"Its sexist and not lgbt friendly for not adding the other sex"

"If they dont add the other sex, im going to end my sub because this is problematic and SE lied"

"I'm going to blatantly ignore the live letter and just interpret it as Yoshi saying that it will happen, just not now instead of what was actually said which was its not in the works now, but if something changes we may add it"

I'm not even against them adding it, but this thread has indeed been a huge whine fest about the whole ordeal.

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It’s a close on 500 page thread; such instances are far and few between and ultimately it’s not like we’re mods who can police what people say, so unsurprisingly, some people say silly things. Still an exception rather than the rule.

At the same time there’s still some posters popping in with already obsolete arguments based on the lore or rather spurious arguments that because things they wanted were not added and they never asked for them, we shouldn’t request mViera or fHrothgar, or that the letter rules them out, when as you say it doesn’t, or that those asking for them are SJWs. Yet this isn’t called out.

There’s childish arguments that pop up on both sides from time to time. Let’s not pretend they’re definitive of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

I'm with you for most of these but I don't think that thinking of Viera as a primarily female race even within XIV is "twisting this game's lore" by any stretch.

In XIV the only Viera we've seen is female, the playable race is female only (at this point) and the guy on the airship who talks about Viera during the Ivalice raids literally talks about seeing "all manner of wondrous creatures" but "[male Viera] did not exist to us."

Here's a link to all his text to be clear, the part I'm quoting is at the bottom of the first frame.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.red...ng_dramaturge/

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Yeah, lore similar to male mooncats... which did not suffice to rule out their addition. People invoking the lore cannot have it both ways.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

I'm with you for most of these but I don't think that thinking of Viera as a primarily female race even within XIV is "twisting this game's lore" by any stretch.

In XIV the only Viera we've seen is female, the playable race is female only (at this point) and the guy on the airship who talks about Viera during the Ivalice raids literally talks about seeing "all manner of wondrous creatures" but "[male Viera] did not exist to us."

Here's a link to all his text to be clear, the part I'm quoting is at the bottom of the first frame.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.red...ng_dramaturge/

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Conveniently the race's males are very rare, so it being female only certainly fits in the lore. At least they have something plausible for their exclusion. Don't know much about Hrothgar, I think similar is said on their Shadowbringers overview, but I don't know Ronso lore, like at all.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

No offense but to me this sounds like you tried to use any excuse (most of which, such as lore, have been proven wrong 197392917229 times already, and there was only people being so aggressive the first day after the fanfest) so we don't get male Viera and you can have your bird race. If you want a bird race what you should be doing is making a thread to get support for them, not telling us to stop complaining and that we shall never get what we want

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I don't know about getting an entirely new bird race, or whatever. I could definitely see them eventually - if the demand was there - adding male Viera/female Hrothgar since those races will already be included in the game. I think it would be a stretch to assume anything more than getting both genders for already included races.