[dev1008] About Jumping

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Originally Posted by HayaHime

I didn't need (Jump) in FFXI and I don't need it in FFXIV too!!

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... /facepalm

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

Actually, they're talking about the same thing on the Japanese forums too.

Let's think about this people. Most of us on Poll #1 said We'd be fine with major fixes right? Well, there's already talk of redesigning Gridania right? And if jumping is added in one form or another, it will change some aspect of the game. Just because it's not on your priority list doesn't mean you should get pissy. Some people want swimming. Personally, I think that's the most god awful thing that could possibly be added to the game. But at the end of the day, we all have to keep in mind, for SOMEONE, it's important. And that's the point of the forum here. At least now people know they're being heard. And another thing... Let's not forget, the Dev Team can do more than one task at a time. All it does it change their priorities AFTER battle is fixed. Jump could effect battle though, so it is something that needs to thought about now while it's possible. But raging because your point of concern isn't at the forefront of everything is silly. Just calm down, because they'll get to everything at some point. But right now, jumping is a relevant issue.

Jumping could impact battle, future exploration, or nothing at all. If it's an emote, then it's done. But if it does effect battle (which I hope it doesn't, and due to the fact they've got the aesthetics in mind. i doubt it will) or exploration (more likely, though with talk of the changes in collision detection, it probably won't) it needs to be talked about. If people want to jump just to jump, it has no place in the game, as it's a rather stupid idea. But if they want jump in battle, sorry, but they'll have to wait for Dragoon or Lancer to get it. And if they want it for exploration, OK, fine, it might just happen.

But we have to keep in mind, this is a community game, built by players, and if something is important to even one person, it deserves a look, even if it seems utterly ridiculous to the rest of us. Even if I thrash someone's idea when they post it, I still feel they had a right to speak up. And I had a right to criticize their idea to make them or someone else to improve on it to make a better idea. But getting emo over it all? That's pretty silly.

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Thats exactly the problem.
I didnt bought this game to be made by amateurs who follow whatever the masses say is important.
This only means disaster and taking longer to fix what currently matters.
I have high hopes thins might turn around , but they never will like this.

And btw they are talking bout emote/aesthetics jump over a clif jump.not battle type jump.So no im sorry this wont matter in the end.

edit; i can list you discussions with over 1k posts all over the mmo world forums about jump or not jump. pvp or pve,sandcastles or themepark.
They all go on and on and on and on and on.never ending discussion.
People dont know wth they whant and they never will.
This is an awfull way to take decissions on what should they focus first (based on post count) becouse discussions about jump are the most discussed in all languages forums.

I really don't know what amazes me more. The fact people care this much about a feature like this when the game has a lot more problems than this. Or the people in favor calling the people against idiots and vice versea without giving any valid reasons.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Thats exactly the problem.
I didnt bought this game to be made by amateurs who follow whatever the masses say is important.
This only means disaster and taking longer to fix what currently matters.
I have high hopes thins might turn around , but they never will like this.

And btw they are talking bout emote/aesthetics jump over a clif jump.not battle type jump.So no im sorry this wont matter in the end.

edit; i can list you discussions with over 1k posts all over the mmo world forums about jump or not jump. pvp or pve,sandcastles or themepark.
They all go on and on and on and on and on.never ending discussion.
People dont know wth they whant and they never will.
This is an awfull way to take decissions on what should they focus first (based on post count) becouse discussions about jump are the most discussed in all languages forums.

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Right. And Tanaka felt the same way. And look at what he released :P FFXIV. There are some things, like it or not, that are commodity. That means they're a basic thing that should be included in anything whether they're part of the mold or not. Your kitchen might not need Ginger, but it sure as hell needs salt. The fact is, we're debating right now on something that's very common and should exist one way or another. Allowing a developer to create an MMO without taking what players want seriously though... bound to fail. Which is what caused FFXIV to get released the way it was.

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

Right. And Tanaka felt the same way. And look at what he released :P FFXIV. There are some things, like it or not, that are commodity. That means they're a basic thing that should be included in anything whether they're part of the mold or not. Your kitchen might not need Ginger, but it sure as hell needs salt. The fact is, we're debating right now on something that's very common and should exist one way or another. Allowing a developer to create an MMO without taking what players want seriously though... bound to fail. Which is what caused FFXIV to get released the way it was.

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No tanaka impediment was FFXI.Not whatever he listened to his player base or not.
FFXIV tryed to be completly diferent from ffxi to gain a diferent type of gamers.
It failed completly.becouse they got greedy and refused to make ffxi-2
It has nothin to do with the comunity at all.If you think this is the case ffxi says hi.
And i can ensure you they never listened to the players in ffxi,,,, EVER.

You obviously haven't played FFXI lately. The second he left, the game got a lot better. A LOT. He brought the same problems to XIV when he came. Sure, a lot of us were expecting an updated version of XI, but those expectations should have started to get dispelled pretty quick. After all, it needed it's own set of features to make it stand out.

Personally, I would have been much more in favor of an Ivalice Online with the Ivalice Lore. But Tanaka only wanted to develop XIV his way. I still remember being offended at some of his twitter posts when people got mad about the surplus system. The fact he ardently defended it, and bashed westerns for being offended by it was proof enough he wouldn't listen to players. It was a bad idea from the start. But he thought it was amazing, and that created a lot of the problems.

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

You obviously haven't played FFXI lately. The second he left, the game got a lot better. A LOT. He brought the same problems to XIV when he came. Sure, a lot of us were expecting an updated version of XI, but those expectations should have started to get dispelled pretty quick. After all, it needed it's own set of features to make it stand out.

Personally, I would have been much more in favor of an Ivalice Online with the Ivalice Lore. But Tanaka only wanted to develop XIV his way. I still remember being offended at some of his twitter posts when people got mad about the surplus system. The fact he ardently defended it, and bashed westerns for being offended by it was proof enough he wouldn't listen to players. It was a bad idea from the start. But he thought it was amazing, and that created a lot of the problems.

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No i wont play ffxi becouse i liked the old ffxi , not the new ffxi.
For the record i do not want ffxi-2 .But this is madness.
There have to be a middle line and moderation on just how much player input can affect what are the priorities is only comun sence.
If you seriously believe this is the time to focus on jump or not to jump, with other great game just around the corner to be released. I honestly dont have anymore to say.

also , whatever the game(ffxi) got better or not. is your personal opinion, i am free to disagree.
The best game ever for you doesnt precisely have to be the same for me.People have different tastes.
This is my biggest worry right now. I dont even know if this game is heading to a direction I will like.i definitely wont stick around to see if i will like the outcome when another good mmo comes out and they still discussing whatever to implement jump or not.I am sure many shares my feelings. Unfortunately not enough to make a difference.

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

I still remember being offended at some of his twitter posts when people got mad about the surplus system. The fact he ardently defended it, and bashed westerns for being offended by it was proof enough he wouldn't listen to players. It was a bad idea from the start. But he thought it was amazing, and that created a lot of the problems.

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I had more of a problem with how he used the word foreigners like a derogatory term, and blamed us for misinterpreting Japanese news regarding Surplus when we were left with nothing else to do because of lack of communication and transparency.

Tanaka lost my respect with the Twitter incident.

I'm so glad Yoshi-P realizes what a critical mistake lack of communication is. Yay, Yoshi-P <3

Could someone address this please?

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

I've probably missed the boat, but has anyone touched on the potential pros and cons of allowing jumping(and yes, "immersion breaking" is a perfectly valid reason) yet?

It seems to me there aren't many of either.

On one hand, there's the benefit of being able to jump up a TINY cliff that forces you to walk for another 7 minutes because you can't step over it. I think this has more to do with bad level design than anything else though, and could easily be dealt with by taking greater care in avoiding obtuse design decisions(La Theine I'm looking at you) or redesigning certain areas slightly.

There's also the argument that the world "opens up" and you can "explore". This is an impossibility because you can't explore something that hasn't been programmed in. In Final Fantasy XI, if there was a way to get somewhere, there was probably something there, and if there wasn't, well it was a wall. Final Fantasy XIV seems to follow the same philosophy.

If we're talking about combat advantages, things get a little more interesting, but abilities like stun for example, and the lack of an auto-attack make jumping behind an opponent to try to score a crit hit(a strategy I'd use as my rogue in WoW) unnecessary, because you can do the same thing by just circling around it.

Is there anything else I'm not looking at?

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Also, to anyone who's arguing "there are more important things and this isn't even in the agenda." Have you taken a look at the Letters From The Producer at all? This isn't something we all just thought of on a whim. The dev team is already actively considering this while working on whatever the game's problems are. It makes sense that we'd want to give feedback on it.

Also thanks to the community team for giving us the heads up on Yoshi and his crew's thoughts on the subject. Regardless of anything, I want him to stick to his guns and do what's best for the game, which may or may not include a jump feature, which is very different from character collision.

Doesn't anybody stop to think just how lame jumping in this game would be? If there is still a lag in response for inputting commands, emotes, hell any user input actually, do you not believe that jumping is just going to be ridiculous?

Input command --> /wait 2 ---> Oh look I jumped!

I wouldn't be offended by a FFXIII style approach with auto-jumping on approach over some of the smaller ledges etc, but even then...why? If we are able to walk in a straight line, what's the point of making maps with curvature and layers in the first place?

They already minimised the amount of travel required with the teleport system, and should they take these kind of steps to make traversing the world streamlined, then you would only see clusters of activity in smaller regions of each map and in higher concentration. If anything - they should be trying to ensure that areas have things to do in most parts of them so that we do get a chance to really see it all and interact with it all.

Part of the appeal of the world is that you have to learn your way around and how to navigate. Sure, it can be annoying when you end up in a dead end that could not be discerned by map use, but often you discover new things by just being in the wrong place.

I won't scream blue murder if jump comes, but I do not see the point. An honest admission - if there was a jump button, I would be inclined to spam it involuntarily.

So please...no jump button!