Final Fantasy XIV Hot Takes

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

wow I can't believe fans of previous titles want their favorite jobs to show up in the Final Fantasy mmorpg ....

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Well sure basic people are gonna basic. And they will continually be surprised (and so frequently disappointed) when XIV decides to do something new like it has been doing with every job in every expansion:

* DRK -> Rune Fencer
* MCH -> Puppetmaster
* AST -> Gambler/Time Mage
* RDM -> Idk man but definitely not what people envisioned
* SAM -> Not tank, Mystic Knight
* DNC -> Not healer
* GNB -> Not DPS
* RPR -> Not Necromancer
* SGE -> Not Chemist

So clamoring for any rote reiteration of a past job is (a) demonstrably--every time--more unimaginative than practically everything (I'm looking at you BLU) the devs have implemented post-ARR; and (b) will almost certainly have its "classic" identity either gutted ability-wise, Frankensteined with other past jobs, or warped into a completely new job.

Appeals to popularity have no traction with me young one. All the observation "fans want something" says to me is that the idea is highly likely to be uninspired and underdeveloped parroting of past media, without consideration for the author's own design sensibilities or how they factor into the larger edifice. And this is really no exception.

Maybe just maybe giving people what they want is a good thing. Listening to people is how you avoid catastrophic situations like the entirety of the 2019 fanfest-that one will be in the history books someday by virtue of the way in which it somehow managed to enrage so many facets of the playerbase at once.

I don't play FF to have not FF stuff here, of course we'd like to see *good* original jobs but you have to remember this game is part of a now 16-game mainline series. Paying homage to other games is expected. Or is WoW not allowed to have Shamans/Druids/Night Elves and characters show up from the original 3 Warcraft games? Is everything there "uninspired" as well because it draws upon aspects relevant to that franchise?

Necromancer (or some variant on it) would incidentally be a fairly novel job regardless, because it's had so few implementations in past FF games. It was almost added to XI but they did not in the end. RPR is nice and all but for those of us who want the job in its caster iteration, or something similar using darkness, would still like Necro.

Part of the risk of reimagining a job is it might not satisfy those who want the original concept. I think this is what's happened with SAM, and it would not be wrong to draw a link to Mystic Knight as SeverianLyonesse has, since SE did try and put in lore blurbs (EE vol 2 referring to it as using martial magecraft) etc. to convey that sense, but because it does not follow the usual elemental mix or stylings of a Mystic Knight, the demand remains there. Personally I do think the six elements are a bit of a crowded field when it comes to jobs wielding them (SMN adding to this with the cycling of egis), but I can understand why SAM may not scratch that itch.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I don't play FF to have not FF stuff here, of course we'd like to see *good* original jobs but you have to remember this game is part of a now 16-game mainline series. Paying homage to other games is expected. Or is WoW not allowed to have Shamans/Druids/Night Elves and characters show up from the original 3 Warcraft games? Is everything there "uninspired" as well because it draws upon aspects relevant to that franchise?

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Except which is the more "FF", the attempted copy-paste from another story ill-fit to this one, or a job made from the ground up to fit the present Final Fantasy game?

XIV is an FF game. So long as it hits the beats we like as well as it can in the context it must work within --and original jobs are usually made for precisely that reason-- its original products will be "FF jobs". We don't need to refuse any innovation or happily ignore context in favor of "Oh, now let's throw Cloud in there! And a Quistis! And a puppeteer! Just... make it fit somehow!"

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* DRK -> Rune Fencer
* MCH -> Puppetmaster
* AST -> Gambler/Time Mage
* RDM -> Idk man but definitely not what people envisioned
* SAM -> Not tank, Mystic Knight
* DNC -> Not healer
* GNB -> Not DPS
* RPR -> Not Necromancer
* SGE -> Not Chemist

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Err some of these make sense, most not so much. MCH is Edgar from FF6, SAM was also in FF6 (Cyan), DRK was in FF4 (Cecil). Sage was created around its weapons and is totally unique, they almost called it Chemist but decided not to so as to not confuse it with Alchemist probably. Reaper was created simply around the idea of a scythe-wielding job because it was in high demand, there's still plenty of room for Necro. RDM is about as close as it can get without having specializations to fill multiple roles or some such. DNC was a support job and still is.

Which leaves AST which definitely has/had a lot of Time Mage stuff and GNB which is a little weird being a tank but it plays like a dps so I guess they just ran out of tank ideas lol.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Necromancer (or some variant on it) would incidentally be a fairly novel job regardless, because it's had so few implementations in past FF games. It was almost added to XI but they did not in the end. RPR is nice and all but for those of us who want the job in its caster iteration, or something similar using darkness, would still like Necro.

Part of the risk of reimagining a job is it might not satisfy those who want the original concept. I think this is what's happened with SAM, and it would not be wrong to draw a link to it as SeverianLyonesse has, since SE did try and put in lore blurbs (EE vol 2 referring to it as using martial magecraft) etc. to convey that sense, but because it does not follow the usual elemental mix or stylings of a Mystic Knight, the demand remains there. Personally I do think the six elements are a bit of a crowded field when it comes to jobs wielding them (SMN adding to this with the cycling of egis), but I can understand why SAM may not scratch that itch.

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What do you think of a more occult vibe? By that being the witches, eldritch, blood, curses, omens, etc like stuff- rather than say black shadows. It's not illegal to have another shadow job of course, but since we've BLM, DRK, and RPR I feel opportunity might be in an offshoot of that 'dark' (or the job might be a healer lol). Certainly Necromancer can fit in there (of course I doubt it'll be called Necromancer, at least on the source. . . ;)).

For example if we used some of the dark theme'd blues, tendrils, crows, souls magic of course could be similar to the Nu Mou, maybe blood magic. Or, potentially could relate to emotion.. magic. Before people go on lore, obviously a lot of stuff would need to be worked out based on whatever is picked. . . I'm trying to not have a 10k+ post here, help me okay lol (could wing some concepts later if need be). For the blood effect it would have to account for undead, like it turns into a dusty / particle mist blue effect (to represent draining of magical essence from undead), in a sense building a sort of vampire warlock job (or Lich of some sort, give it that FFXI blue mage like back story >:3). I'm aware Red Mage has the lore for vampire, but we can take that concept and run down it 200 miles an hour plus some twists so it's not literally a red mage gone bad (different techniques some vaguely similar concepts, like using math to make rockets or using it to make bridges).

Since we did get Reaper though, I mean to ask- is it the visual colors or the thematic vibe that is the desire? Like shadow-y warlock, Ascian vibes included, the thought of void magic specifically, black colors, taboo or mysterious nature, armor set important (which armor silhouette, cloaks?), weapon idea, etc, ? Say for example if it was a taboo magical focused job with dark elements of theme but was largely a job using colors not specifically black (or at least exclusively)?

Curious because- well I am and I like thinking of new things, but also because I think it would improve your chance to see something you're interested in (or at least related to it). As I think Reaper was a response to a few desires bound into one package they thought could be fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

What do you think of a more occult vibe? By that being the witches, eldritch, blood, curses, omens, etc like stuff- rather than say black shadows. It's not illegal to have another shadow job of course, but since we've BLM, DRK, and RPR I feel opportunity might be in an offshoot of that 'dark' (or the job might be a healer lol). Certainly Necromancer can fit in there (of course I doubt it'll be called Necromancer, at least on the source. . . ;)).

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I'd be open to that.

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For example if we used some of the dark theme'd blues, tendrils, crows, souls magic of course could be similar to the Nu Mou, maybe blood magic. Or, potentially could relate to emotion.. magic. Before people go on lore, obviously a lot of stuff would need to be worked out based on whatever is picked. . . I'm trying to not have a 10k+ post here, help me okay lol (could wing some concepts later if need be). For the blood effect it would have to account for undead, like it turns into a dusty / particle mist blue effect (to represent draining of magical essence from undead), in a sense building a sort of vampire warlock job (or Lich of some sort, give it that FFXI blue mage like back story >:3). I'm aware Red Mage has the lore for vampire, but we can take that concept and run down it 200 miles an hour plus some twists so it's not literally a red mage gone bad (different techniques some vaguely similar concepts, like using math to make rockets or using it to make bridges).

Since we did get Reaper though, I mean to ask- is it the visual colors or the thematic vibe that is the desire? Like shadow-y warlock, Ascian vibes included, the thought of void magic specifically, black colors, taboo or mysterious nature, armor set important (which armor silhouette, cloaks?), weapon idea, etc, ? Say for example if it was a taboo magical focused job with dark elements of theme but was largely a job using colors not specifically black (or at least exclusively)?

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It's really the fact that I like the visuals of darkness spells a lot, plus the warlock vibe the Ascians have, and the possibility of a power-up phase like the Ascian Prime form. There's only two jobs really making use of the aesthetics, while we have BLM, WHM (until higher levels), SMN, RDM, NIN and MNK all using the classical elements to some degree or other. I'd have agreed with you that BLM could fill that niche but its focus continues to be on its three elements, and I suspect the next expansion will see the thunder ones get some love, because they're looking rather drab. It has a couple of spells you could arguably say are darkness-aspected, but I'd like more. The visuals of Voidsent being summoned to unleash spells like you see in the fight with Avere would be neat as well. As for weapon? I'm not too bothered, but I'd like a caster dps with a floaty orb/focus type weapon... not fair that the healers get to have all the fun with those. :p I think an occult theme like you mention would suit such a job well.

At worst, if they're not feeling too ambitious, time mage using darkness and using time to contract/expand spells would suffice, but I like the idea of what you mention before. Especially since we've seen an aether vampire in P4 and it would be cool to integrate such aspects into a new job.

Hot take:

Taking your time with a dungeon and completing it in 15 mins is more fun than sprinting like f**king Sonic wall to wall for the sake of completing the dungeon in 13 minutes instead.

Hotter take:

Single pulling tanks have no rights and should have their tank privileges revoked, their tank license suspended, and be forced to attend a 6 week course on how to tank. If they don't use their mitigations and/or spin the boss like a beyblade, they will be buried up to their necks in sand in the Saharan Desert for an entire day in order to repent for their sins.

Healers that don't know how to use anything beyond Cure 1/Physick/Benefic 1/Diagnosis and refuse to use their aoes or even attack should be sent to Guantanamo Bay for their crimes against humanity. Healers that spam Medica 2/Succour and it's equivalents will be sentenced to the salt mines.

DPS that are incapable of following glowing buttons and try to combo single target with aoe skills (looking at you random dragoon that was using uncomboed Chaos Thrust with Sonic Thrust I saw last night) are actually subhuman. They will be abandoned in the Australian wilderness and forced to fend for themselves for an entire week.

/s? Maybe... maybe.

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

Err some of these make sense, most not so much. MCH is Edgar from FF6, SAM was also in FF6 (Cyan), DRK was in FF4 (Cecil). Sage was created around its weapons and is totally unique, they almost called it Chemist but decided not to so as to not confuse it with Alchemist probably. Reaper was created simply around the idea of a scythe-wielding job because it was in high demand, there's still plenty of room for Necro. RDM is about as close as it can get without having specializations to fill multiple roles or some such. DNC was a support job and still is.

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I'm talking about how they play versus prior iterations. DRK definitely incorporates a lot of XI's Rune Fencer into its aesthetic. And I would still argue that even though MCH does take cues from VI's Edgar, the core automaton management was adapted over from XI's Puppetmaster. YMMV as to how similar SAM and VI's Cyan are, but it still seems to me that XIV's iteration of SAM leans a bit more into Mystic Knight territory than Cyan's toolkit.

I have a tinfoil theory that Sage still was heavily inspired by FF III's sage. The outfit shares similar design elements. The premise is the same as SGE (use attack and healing magic), just somewhat simplified and shifted more high tech. The whole "adder" thing feels like it might be a callback to the elemental "fangs" of FFs II/III, and even the base relics are fang-shaped. And the fact that it uses four floating crystals feels like it is probably referencing how Sage (and Ninja) were unlocked by mastering all four crystals of light.

I do not share anyone's sentiment that there is "plenty of room" for Necro. It could maybe be eeked out, but it almost certainly wouldn't have the "gothic demonspawn" aesthetic that RPR already gives us. And the fact that scythes/reapers and necromancy are very interrelated doesn't help Necro's chances.

RDM added the entire new concept of "Red Magic" to the job. I don't think anyone was anticipating RDM to enchant its blade with blood magic. Like half of the RDM concept is new and unique to FF XIV.

And similarly, just because DNC was support doesn't mean this iteration is quite different from what players envisioned or wanted. And I still see the occasional comment complaining that DNC isn't a healer.