Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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I was unaware the only new zone in Zilart was Sky. How about that.

I said hyperbole because we have no idea what a new player will do. However we do know that some don't care about the story, some may want to explore the zones in an expansion they paid for (which they could not do at all in the case of HW, making Au Ra the only thing they actually could use if they bought the expansion), etc. Some may even choose to play the game in chronological order, even if it may take them a few months to finally get to expansion number 5. People playing this game don't play for the same reasons (I have DoL friends who were annoyed they had to do the MSQ just to enter new zones so they could Gather items to Craft).

I am aware. Are you aware that my argument you're specifically quoting is about 'accessibility' (exploring zones that recommends you not to be low level in) and not endgame?

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Why play a story based mmo if you are going to skip one of the main features... The Story?

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Because it's an MMO. There's more to this game than the story (which is a one and done deal. You can't even redo the single player fights unless you create an alt).

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

They were thinking about it...but settled on a restriction in the end. Yes, everything probaly won't be gated, like, as I said before, jobs, but you can be sure that we'll still have a lot of content tied to the story. You won't have access to story trials and dungeons, you won't have access to the complete zones, which will require flying, unlocked by 3.0 MSQ. And you probably won't have access to 4.0 endgame, which will be restricted by 4.0 story.

As for a considered "story skip potion"...It will be so much fun to see new players having so little motivation to play the game that they'll spend more real money on it, learn nothing about their jobs during the leveling process, and quitting two months later because the game is too hard and have too little content to do.

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Ehm, the content is still there. You can start 8 characters, one for the story and one for joining your friends in end-game right away. And another one, because you think that your female character should be a healer/caster and your male character a tank/melee, because of aesthetic reasons.
Ohhh, people have a choice now... that must be bad and lead to fatal consequences.

Also always only quoting a single sentence out of my posts combined with your almost non existent knowledge about the actual MSQ process (like time needed or sprout requirements) and complete absence of objective reasons is pretty telling anyway.

It's pretty simple: So far we don't know of any player who left, because there was to less story content you have to do. We only know of people who quit or complain because of to much story you're forced to do.
So implementing an option would please a known crowd of people and everone who complains about "to less" story then can just get told "Then do the MSQ."
Let me try:
"Hey, if you want to do/see all the content they created, try to make a new character and play it. You can make up to 8 characters." ---- Bam, player loss avoided. That was really simple.
If they feel it's to hard: They can do any low difficult content (including PotD) to learn the game. Also because of ilvl they have to start with simple things anyway.
But they can actually start right away with it. Like you start the game and do the first 5 dungeons to learn your first steps the game, instead of doing 20h+ of story alone to unlock the first 3-5 dungeons. But, again, that seems way to simple, maybe.
95%+ of all the MSQ doesn't teach you anything important (beside lore), which can not be learned in 5-10h PotD.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Remove the need to do ARR, and you could have done HW content in less than a month

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That's not true, if we had the ability to remove ARR from the requirement but start all classes at 30 like jobs in HW all content would be locked for 20 levels. The only way they could possible pull off removing ARR is if every new expansion started all new players at the max level of the last expansion, meaning HW would have started everyone at 50, and BS would need to start all new player at 60. I don't think I need to elaborate on how starting ALL new players and classes out at near max level is a bad idea. Look no further than the Dark Knight influx of people who never played a tank class within 14s structure.

This isn't even touching the crafting and gathering either, imagine if ARR was removed many crafts likely wouldn't even be crafted. ARR is basically training grounds at this point, and some people who log regularly still discredit the basics that ARR teaches us. The only way ARR is going to be removed is if SE redesigns the entire game, not just the battle system, and that is a choice SE likely won't make for sometime.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I was unaware the only new zone in Zilart was Sky. How about that.

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The whole idea of the skip is for new players to play with us...and we veteran players play at endgame 90% of time. So yes gating the endgame is what's most important for grouping withnew players. ZM endgame were Sky and Dynamis...both gated behind City Ranks.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

People playing this game don't play for the same reasons (I have DoL friends who were annoyed they had to do the MSQ just to enter new zones so they could Gather items to Craft).

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If you don't follow the basic backbone of the game, it's you who need to play another game, not the game to break its identity for you. If they decided to gate part Stormblood behind the MSQ completion (Even if not all of it), that's the identity of FFXIV. It's like saying "Make this game F2P, I don't want to play a subscription based game".

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I am aware. Are you aware that my argument you're specifically quoting is about 'accessibility' (exploring zones that recommends you not to be low level in) and not endgame?

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See my first point. A new player has no reason to skip content (Since, again, everyhting is new for them) for another reason that play with veterans (Which is a non issue thanks to leveling multiple jobs on one character and the level sync in duties), veterans who play mostly at endgame.

As for what they paid for, the current complete version (ARR+HW) cost less than what players had to pay for ARR at release...

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

That's not true, if we had the ability to remove ARR from the requirement but start all classes at 30 like jobs in HW all content would be locked for 31 levels.

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Yes...and how long would it take to level your fresh new job to 50 to access HW ? Two days ? Three ?

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Why play a story based mmo if you are going to skip one of the main features... The Story?

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IMO, this story is the worst in any Final Fantasy games I've played. The NPC's in 2.0 were so bland and one dimensional.
The Scions were all copy and pasted from one another, hell, even Edda and co had more personality than them and that's
is what with little bits we got from her back then. Doesn't help our character have no personality of our own, at least in GW2 we could
make some. I actually miss Estienin, Ysayle because it actually felt like a Final Fantasy story, with friends and a goal. When we were on the way to Sohm Al and the camp fire
and both of them were kinda at each other was one of moments in this game. So I commend HW for having a good story...

But this game cannot keep going with just the story alone. Like others said, it's a MMO.
Dunno if folks are seriously willing to P2P $1x a month just to read a story.
I admit to skipping a lot of 2.0's story but I've been playing since Phase 3 beta and I am still here.
And guess what? I still get bored of the game because of how it's patterned. Has nothing to do with me skipping the story or rushing.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Yes...and how long would it take to level your fresh new job to 50 to access HW ? Two days ? Three ?

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Yes two or three days, with ALL ARR content. If you read what I wrote you'd understand that all starting out brand new in HW at level 30 with NO ARR content, wouldn't work because HW content is designed around existing players being level 50, not 30. If the game was designed to let level 30 players start out, they wouldn't have any way for level 50 players to level up.

Therefore ARR can't be removed unless like I stated, SE designs the new expansions here on out to start all players and classes out at the max level of the last expansion. Which again, had you read my edit, you'd know how bad that would be given how badly people failed at DRK who had no previous experience tanking. Now tell me would you want to run instances with a brand new fresh out the box level 60 healer who doesn't have a drop of sense as far as understanding what the core skills do? Or would you rather have a player who is trained up and has the foundations of their class understood and can properly assess themselves as well as the rest of the group.

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Originally Posted by Terribad

Why do people keep saying this? No where on the box, the website, wikipedia, etc does this say "FFXIV is a story based MMO"(Most likely because that's redundant because all mmos are story based)..

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FF = Final Fantasy = story

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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Zilart had more than just Sky. I tried to imply Zilart had more than just one new zone, but you missed it entirely and stuck with endgame.

The identity of FFXIV should not be "our expansions are $40-$60 bricks until you finish the other stuff first."

A new player has any reason they want. If they don't care about the story, they will skip the cutscenes. If they specifically want to be a Gatherer/Crafter, then that's what they'll be... until the game forces them to do the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Felis

FF = Final Fantasy = story

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Their argument was against why people claim that FFXIV is only/mostly about the story. Story is a one and done deal. I highly doubt a majority of the FFXIV playerbase stop playing FFXIV the moment the story of the expansion/patch is done.

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Originally Posted by Felis

FF = Final Fantasy = story

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Any RPG (and MMORPGs are RPGs) has a story. Most games do. FF single player games aren't in any way special story-wise compared to other ones, like Deus Ex, Witcher, Baldur's Gate, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Evermore, etc. etc...
Even among FF fans there are many discussions which Fantasy games actually have a good story and which of these games don't.

Since when are FF "the best story RPGs" or the RPG which concerns most about story compared with other RPGs? It never was.

That's a bit like:
Half Life multiplayer back in 1998 should have been gated behind single player completion. Because it was mainly about the story, which was also maybe the best story ever seen in a first person shooter up to this point. Also people should have at least 20h of experience in this game before joining difficult multiplayer.
Someone buying that game just to play it together with friends in the competive (or if there was any) cooperative multiplayer parts? That's not allowed!!!

Or a better example:
After buying the expansion "Throne of Baal" for BG2 you could just start with the expansion, become an average geared high level character and be able to start the expansion story right away.
Should this have been made impossible, because BG2 is one of the RPGs with a very good story and world, while also not that easy to learn/master?


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Just reflect how many people you know who played FF14 story completly (watching everything) at least 2 or even 3 times.
Then you know how important the story really is to enjoy this game.
Name anyone (except maybe those lore mongers here in the forums) who decides to "replay" all the story of 2.x, while waiting for the next patch.

Compare it with FF7, FF8, FF10 and likely every other FF game and you'll see that those games get replayed way more often (most likely because of the story).
Therefore FF14 seems to have a problem with its story quality and/or length compared with every single player FF.

Also: Single player FF games (usually) end, when you complete the story. FF14 does not, it only gets started at this point, most of the time you commit to this game will be after the story.

I can see having new players doing ARR if they cut out all the fluff in the MSQ quests. They could easily condense the MSQ to a handful of quests and increase the exp gain exponentially till reaching level 60.

Also, if they need players to have HW content completed then they should charge 10$ on top of ARR for a level up HW version. Meaning you dont get the full version of HW just the Open world areas and all the dungeons/raids + classes. Basically you only get content that is found in the Duty Finder and the jobs. You wont get the HW relics or any extra fluff that was added to HW. This would give the player enough content to level up through HW and do any MSQ quests that are needed to go into the 4.0 area.

But all OLD MSQ content needs to be condensed to a hand full of quesst that gives the players an option to view it. Make it like the 2.55 MSQ quest with a notice saying "please set aside some time for this cut-scene." There is no reason for a new player to go through all those old long drawn out quests just to enter the new areas in HW and the new 4.0 area.