Which is something that could easily be determined if the game allowed us to, instead of leaving an inferior system in place that punishes people needlessly for doing no wrong.Quote:
While it is just like that, I don't agree that it is crap... Teachers (usually) only use such methods when it cannot be determined which kid was the one acting up.... Much like when you cannot determine which person in your party hit withdraw.
Locked out of the Duty Finder.
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11-21-2014, 07:56 PMFynlar
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11-21-2014, 08:01 PMTaliphMany suggestions have been made on how you determine who hit withdraw, no suggestions have been made for alterations to this system that would not invite more abuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
Also, this system is inferior to what, exactly? Certainly not inferior to the previous status quo. -
11-22-2014, 01:19 AMNiwashiTo do it now, the tank or healer would have to Leave after entering, so would definitely get the penalty. If he could accomplish the same thing by just not choosing Commence, he could do that a couple times without a penalty. You're right that he couldn't keep doing it indefinitely, but I'd rather not allow the first or second time per day to be penalty-free.Quote:
Originally Posted by polyphonica
It would keep the priority they had based on how long they'd been waiting, but any priority based on which roles were included in their group would be re-evaluated based on the roles of the members who are still in the group. So if they'd been bumped to the beginning of the line solely because there was a tank in their group, but it was the tank who withdrew, then they'd be back to wherever they would have been at in the queue if the tank hadn't been with them when they entered it. So the tank's initial presence in their group doesn't affect their queue time unless the tank joins the dungeon with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by polyphonica
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11-22-2014, 02:00 AMFynlarNothing currently in the game is sufficient to determine who can cause a queue to fail, because all we get is "your registration is withdrawn". Sure, if someone is just afk you might root them out with a ready check, but not if someone is deliberately trolling the group. We *were* talking about dealing with trolls in this topic, right?Quote:
Many suggestions have been made on how you determine who hit withdraw, no suggestions have been made for alterations to this system that would not invite more abuse.
Along with the change of only the perpetrator getting the strike, the only change to the system needed is for the message to instead say "soandso's entry could not be confirmed. your registration is withdrawn." What is so complicated about this, exactly?
It's inferior to what it easily could have been. It left behind a major flaw that wasn't there before. Fixing something and leaving behind other very obvious problems doesn't merit my praise.Quote:
Also, this system is inferior to what, exactly? Certainly not inferior to the previous status quo.
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11-22-2014, 02:08 AMNyarukoWExcuse, excuses. People from your party are your friends, it shouldn't be hard to find out which one is being a trouble maker. Random people you meet on the PF, you call them out, communicate and find out. If they all lie and deny, you leave that party immediately. You don't need to party with people like that. If you can't even queue properly, just wait until they troll you in the instance. The whole notion that people will wait for 20+ minutes on the PF just to troll queue the DF is just ridiculous, it is a great way to earn the party leader a blacklist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
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11-22-2014, 02:33 AMIzsha
1. This system is far superior to the withdraw spam that used to exist. If you can't see that you are truly lost.
2. Every suggestion in this thread to 'fix' trolling only closes the door but opens a window for trolls, but most make things way more complicated to boot.
SE can't make a troll proof gaming experience. Every time they leave an exception to account for legitimate issues for people, it just opens the door wider for trolls. To close them all punishes normal people. If we had zero strikes it would stop trolls but puss of people. If we have infinite, people aren't punished but trolls are rampant. We can't account for people's legitimate issues and strike out all trolling because they are forever entwined. This is a simple compromise that limits trolling, and gives a generally adequate window for normal issues. Shit happens. Once in a while someone will get collateral damage. No system is perfect and the suggestions to 'fix' this system all have their own vulnerabilities.
Take reasonable precautions like ready checks and move on. Cue with friends. Blacklist duechebags. SE can't fix community issues with cue rules.
A "so and so ' s entry could not be confirmed" is the only adjustment that doesn't create room for abuse because it just gives information instead of trying to patch up a community problem with code. That's the 1st good idea in this thread. Arming players with information is the only way SE can help with community problems. You can't code away trolls without hurting normal people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
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11-22-2014, 02:37 AMOghmanyteClearly you don't understand the internet very well if you think people won't wait 20 minutes to troll the DF.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyarukoW
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11-22-2014, 02:50 AMSouljackerThe lost ones are the ones who believe that adding a penalty of ANY kind instead of patching up the hole was the correct answer. The kind of queue fishing we saw here just wasn't possible by design in other games. It's not possible, because other games tried exactly what SE did here, saw it didn't work, and quickly reverted back to randomly distributing people into queues as spots opened and not based on whether or not they personally were willing to be filtered into a partial run.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
No, they don't. The ONLY reason that queue fishing was EVER possible was because of that little "in progress" check box. Take that away, the whole problem disappears. You will still have people missing queues and not being able to join because of emergency RL things cropping up, but the original issue this was meant to combat will go away. The withdraw spam wasn't because of "trolls" - it was because of tanks and healers trying to game the system to get their bonus out of the way with the least amount of work. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
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11-22-2014, 02:56 AMAshkendorIf you get rid of the "in progress" button, we'd basically be forced to abandon if a player left a dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljacker
If the solution just creates an even bigger problem, it's not much of a solution.
As a side note, I love how people try to blame in-progress fishing solely on "those lazy tanks/healers". >.> -
11-22-2014, 03:04 AMIzsha
Ugh like I just said. Close door open window. If you remove the penalty trolls will still withdraw spam on in demand jobs. It's not just fishing, but also trolls. It's a little naive to think withdraws were all just fishers. Revert the penalty welcome back the trolls.
Fynlar ' s idea just saying who withdrew in a group would be the simplest, least dev time solution and actually address the problem by arming players with the information to solve their own problems instead of creating a nightmarish patchwork of more layers of digital bureaucracy.