WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

i90-110 Bards doing 150-200 DPS on primals in DF is not an extreme case at all, like I said, so DF some HM's and you'll see it's VERY common.

It's actually less common to see Bards doing 300+ for DF Primals.

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You misunderstood what I meant by "poor DPS" and took it to the extreme. That's all.

So, indeed, we agree on that: don't support terrible players who keep dying and who DPS by rolling their face on the keybord. Or, in fact "don't even take them in your party at all" would be more correct.
But that one was obvious and I shouldn't need to mention it.

Oh and, yes, 150 DPS bard in i110 is an extreme case of "terrible player".

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Originally Posted by Gucci_Charms

The best is getting put into a Syrcus Tower party where all your or most of your DPS members are bards. Only one of them actually makes use of their songs. The rest are too busy pew pewing.

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Or getting a tank that don't pull the mobs but just stays on the boss :P

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Maybe, but as for the post I quoted from you, you actually said "singing a song in this case [invulnerability phases] lowers the overall party DPS by lowering your own", which is the opposite as "throw a song during those phases to grab a few ticks".
So, yeah, as I said, a contradiction.

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Perhaps I was unclear. Singing a song while the mob is targettable but will go into an invulnerability phase soon is a waste of DPS. The raised person can go with their normal rotation and regain enough TP while the mob is invulnerable so that they won't run out of TP.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

- Yes, helping a MNK/DRG getting back on his feet and start his rotation again will lead to an overall better DPS rather than you just ignoring them. Just do simple maths.

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Paeon is not a panacea. It only gives 30 TP every 3 seconds. And it really pointless to do it only for a few ticks as it consumes 1 gcd to activate.
MNK/DRK can do this "back on feet" part themselves by skipping skill or two to regenerate TP.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

A bard who know when to sing and for who and manages to have a decent DPS is, at least "very good"

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I better "know how to pull out 400+ dps" than "know when to sing a mana/tp song by myself". Unfortunately this two are mutually exclusive as attention is not an infinite resource and bard play requires a lot of attention.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

If you sing for TP during these phases, lowering your damage doesn't matter since you can't DPS anyway

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Unfortunately bard's songs are spells, unlike other skills, and have cast times that binds you to the ground. And many of those "invulnerability phases" requires you to reposition yourself, thus preventing you from casting songs.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

And if a WHM dies for whatever reason and get insta rez? You won't sing a balad to get him back up on MP? You prefer mocking that WHM saying "HAHA, YOU ARE BAD" and seing his MP sitting at 0 rather than singing a balad?

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They have Shroud for those occasions. Normally it's either chain death or super emergency due to bad play of others. Both are a sign that party is bad. And in this case WHM can and should ask for ballad themselves.
Just to put this into perspective - I haven't played ballad even once in last 3 month I do Coil2. Because nobody asked me for it as it was not really needed. And our WHM likes to die occasionally.

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Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl

If you're going to judge my class, then I shall yours,

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Like you've not done this from the start, the very first post in this thread from a bard was "but you guys suck". I read your posts but you didn't read mine since I never said it's a bard job to "bail us out". You need to support, do that. Just press that button and sing a song, it's not hard and it certainly does not require a 47 page explanation on why you don't. It's like you have tunnel vision even when you post.

Not even gonna comment on your description of a healer since lmao, you're clearly trying to downplay healers just to elevate bards... kinda like how you (bards) try to point at other people's faults when their singing is questioned... noticing a trend here.

anyway, I've said all I had to say. If you don't sing you're a bad bard, end of.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Like you've not done this from the start, the very first post in this thread from a bard was "but you guys suck". I read your posts but you didn't read mine since I never said it's a bard job to "bail us out". You need to support, do that. Just press that button and sing a song, it's not hard and it certainly does not require a 47 page explanation on why you don't. It's like you have tunnel vision even when you post.

Not even gonna comment on your description of a healer since lmao, you're clearly trying to downplay healers just to elevate bards... kinda like how you (bards) try to point at other people's faults when their singing is questioned... noticing a trend here.

anyway, I've said all I had to say. If you don't sing you're a bad bard, end of.

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Yeah yeah yeah, like every other clueless healer who came running here QQing about a traumatizing run they had because they were out of mp and blame the bard. How about you get over yourself, the fact of me talking about healing was because you trashed the bard class saying it didn't take a enlightened individual to play it. Really you don't even listen to yourself, let alone the posts you respond to, you're someone whom often starts debates and is in it to win it. My earlier posts like I said, were misunderstood, so things got a little carried away due to others like you striking at me rather than trying to understand what I'm saying, I'm not going to delete those post because that would be pointless. We aren't a support, we are a dps role with support moves, and I agree with using them, for emergencies (aside from for foe req), you're only arguing with me because you either A) believe they should played constantly, or B) just to argue. Nothing with my post that you responded to said I wasn't going to play a song cus the group messed up. I said it might be impossible to, and that the dependence on bards for those mistakes isn't reliable and will ultimately keep people on trapped in easy content. You never listened to anyone you fought with, you're In it for the attention, not once did you have a decent argument In your debates. When you become a good bard maybe then you'll know what you're talking about, but until then hush and let the good bards handle things.

If you don't play songs as a bard. Please pick another job, because you certainly don't want to do yours.

That is all that needs to be said.

In all fairness - 'Bard' is a terrible description for the Archer / Ranger class SE created. The singing seems like an afterthought stuck on to a DPS class - so does the healing LB which makes no sense.

Bards in other MMO's are actual support classes with lots of support abilities - haste, healing, defense, attack speed, etc. In FFXIV they may have well thrown some songs in for MNK and DRG as well because the nature of a Bard class was clearly lost on the developers.

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Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack

Fact is, when I run low lvl roulette I don't sing songs.... ever.

THen again, I cant remember the last time I used bard for roulette since the que's TAKE SO LONG. I just use my tank, even in the expert and high lvl roulette though, I never see bards sing.

Thing is though, its not going to increase a blm's dps by that much. Literally it may go up by 10dps which is moot in dungeons as there really isnt any dps checks.

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I remember the early days of Brayflox HM, a group with me as blm and a brd as the other dps.

First AoE pull brd shot single target, mobs all lasted through 3xFire II > raging Flare > convert Fire II > Flare > ether Flare. Second AoE round up, same results, mobs still up after all that.

After 2nd pull I asked the brd to use foe for the AoE stuff, it all was dead on the 2nd flare.

When stuff dies quick it doesn't matter, when it's 20+ seconds it matters quite a bit.

Here's my personal flowchart:
Are both healers alive, the situation is non-critical, and there are no mages in the party? Don't sing.
Mages in the party and it's a DPS race? Sing Requiem
Healer died? Sing Ballad
People keep dying forcing healer(s) to rez in the same battle? Why the hell are we still alive? Anyway, sing ballad. Usually only happens in ST.

Part of being a bard is knowing when to sing...unfortunately the line between "Singing would be helpful" and "it's a wipe" is RAZOR thin.