Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

I will try and verify this tonight @ 453.. just outa curiosity, which p-word were you using?

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I am sure he wasn't using one...he means, his friend. I will speak to some other members of the FC tonight and see if I can add some more data. That being said, I normally run at 462, which I know is high, but I am horrified of missing on Asclepius

Nope, not using any. I can tell without using it, because Disembowel didn't get highlighted by that time, so I'm pretty much sure with it.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

Nope, not using any. I can tell without using it, because Disembowel didn't get highlighted by that time, so I'm pretty much sure with it.

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That's not actually supporting your argument, since hitting the ID on the flank would also prevent the combo from proceeding. We'd need to see the thing that cannot be named beginning with 'p'.

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

That's not actually supporting your argument, since hitting the ID on the flank would also prevent the combo from proceeding. We'd need to see the thing that cannot be named beginning with 'p'.

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Sadly, I can't provide any of those as I'm not using anything like that. Welp, since I cannot provide any data to support my claims aside from my personal experience, might as well just dismiss this information I provided.

As a Sub tank, who eats all the hatches, I'm pretty much sure that my position is always in the rear UNLESS the tank is circling me with Liquid Hell which would cause Twintania to rotate as well. But that's not the case, and for it to happen 3-4x, guess I'm not that "D" enough not to notice that I'm not on Twintania's Rear.

There's also the glitch with combos not always lighting up, despite being landed correctly.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

There's also the glitch with combos not always lighting up, despite being landed correctly.

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Particularly with Impulse Drive > Disembowel I've noticed. Sometimes it won't light up, but after Disembowel goes off CT will light up to confirm the combo is in effect.

I don't think that's a bug-glitch, but a lag-glitch. I notice that more in certain fights or when things are a bit laggy (like Odin this morning).

Less of a dragoon question and more of a Melee dps on Garuda EX question....Been farming her all week trying to get rings (cus ultima is a tard and wont drop anything for me) and dont really have any problems except when the group kills suparna first and ignores chi....I know Sup casts friction before a WW is inbound but without that tell im pretty much lost and end up trying to guess when garuda is gonna cast it and I mostly guess wrong and take a big ol' wheel to the face (doesnt kill me but brings me awfully close and healers rage)

Does she (garuda) have a rotation similar to suparna I should memorize inorder to dodge her WW since I dont have Sup friction tell to give me a heads up or does she just do her own thing?

She has a rotation (and I should know it...but don't)...but honestly, there should be no reason for melee to be near her while she's able to WW.

Ideally, a group with melee would use the JP Triangle method...but no one on my server does.

So the OT pulls Chi, Ranged kill Sup first while OT and melee beat on Chi, then range kill Chi after Sup is dead.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

She has a rotation (and I should know it...but don't)...but honestly, there should be no reason for melee to be near her while she's able to WW.

Ideally, a group with melee would use the JP Triangle method...but no one on my server does.

So the OT pulls Chi, Ranged kill Sup first while OT and melee beat on Chi, then range kill Chi after Sup is dead.

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Normally when I PF or DF Garuda ex, groups will either split dps or focus down chi then sup...in those cases I go with OT and beat on chi until it dies then switch to Sup, look for friction, hide in a corner until WW then go back to deeps. But when I get groups that go into it planning to totally ignore Chi and Sup dies before the first WW even goes off, I dont really know what to look for to dodge garudas WW. =/

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

There's also the glitch with combos not always lighting up, despite being landed correctly.

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That happens when you use a buff like BfB while landing the attack in a precise timing. Even if it doesn't lights up, though, I noticed it still works at full potency. A minor inconvenience, but an inconvenience nonetheless.

Lighting up isn't necessary for the combo to continue, yeah.

Thorauku was basing his proof against the flank/rear ACC cap on the concept of Dis not lighting up after ID though, so the glitch needed to be mentioned..

Bah, forget it. I'll just test again in our run for this week's reset, and probably ask someone to do the "p"-word.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

As a Sub tank, who eats all the hatches, I'm pretty much sure that my position is always in the rear UNLESS the tank is circling me with Liquid Hell which would cause Twintania to rotate as well.

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And when Twintania turns around to cast liquid hell at the other members of your party for about half that entire phase.

Edit: To clarify, 4 is still rare. However, I don't think misses on the last phase of Twin are very reliable in general due to the amount of time she spends turning, unless you are paying a lot of attention to what she's doing / her facing the entire fight when you notice the misses.

Edit2: Especially when you consider that when she turns it's not unlikely to get a frontal attack on her, which will actually have a meaningful miss chance, making "4" misses less rare.

I'm trying to help an FC dragoon on his rotation. We tried him out on T4 and it was bad. Real bad.

So back to Whitebrim we go! My question is, judging by the amount of HP the Dreadnaughts have (around 64,000?) and given the 60-sec window, would it be correct to say he needs to stay above 215 DPS? I'm not sure what he parsed last night, but it couldn't have been much (did not keep up HT, seemed to repeat IDC combo over and over). He has Zenith and some nice gear so I'd like to get him on the right track. We had some sessions with our other dragoon last week, but it must not have stuck.

So does about 215-220 DPS as a minimum sound about right for T4?

Sounds like a really low bare minimum for someone who's not doing much AOE on p1/4. Edit: but 200 means he's pressing buttons reasonably often.

I mean, the dreadnought part is really simple since there are no mechanics, just raw pew pew. Anyone with an i90 weapon should pull >250 on that isolated segment (check time-on-target DPS for the DRG's attacks against the dread).


The main ways to fix the DPS are:

1. Make sure he's aware that he should maintain the Heavy Thrust buff 24x7.

2. Make sure he's aware of what flank and rear positions mean and how they are indicated on the target. The rear arc on the target has the "gap" in the target reticle on the floor. The flanks are ... well, on the sides. Failure to use the correct positions with Heavy Thrust and Impulse Drive (and then ignoring the fact that you failed the position) will cause a tremendous DPS loss.


Those two things alone should push DPS up to non-horribad levels.


3. Since he seems poor on the skill front, you probably want to have him pair HT with Phlebotomize, but this is less important than #1 and #2 above. A simple rotation is:

HT+PH - ID+DE+CT - TT+VT+FT
-repeat-

It's like super simple and it's only off of theoretical max by like 5% (random guess).


If he's able to do the above 3 things, then prod him to ensure that he's using all his off-GCDs on cooldown (buffs as well as Leg Sweep and jumps).

What's the best way to use jump and power surge? Do I use jump on CD and power surge whenever I can or do I delay jump by 20 seconds?

This is probably simple math but I just don't have it in me to do it, thanks for help~

That was simple napkin math for an estimate of the minimum to be pushing through t4. I know based on what I parse he should be closer, if not over, 300. If I can do it without Zenith on a dummy surely they can as well. The correct rotation is really that strong, I guess :D

I can push 320 dpS on my burst dpS with having only i70 with 2 lvl 4 determination material. Only been a drg for a few weeks. Drg rotation is super easy, question for easy..... U listed H P IDC TTT, is there a difference if I do H IDC P TTT?

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

is there a difference if I do H IDC P TTT?

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H IDC P TTT H TTT P IDC H TTT P TTT is best, he mentioned the other one because it's easier for someone who's struggling with doing event decent dps.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

I can push 320 dpS on my burst dpS with having only i70 with 2 lvl 4 determination material. Only been a drg for a few weeks. Drg rotation is super easy, question for easy..... U listed H P IDC TTT, is there a difference if I do H IDC P TTT?

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Burst is inflated due to all the buffs. Run until out of TP, Invigorate, then run out of TP again for a nice sustained DPS number.

The difference between the rotation is minimal, however, the main reason you'd wanna use Phleb after IDC is because of the Disembowel buff. Plus the DoTs just line up a little better (less clipping/downtime)

Edit: I just saw EMX's edit, thanks EMX :D

It's just difficult to say "Sorry man we need more DPS than this". I can help him with the rotation but can't do it for him, you know? So I guess simplifying it is the best way to go right now. He did OK in T1-2, but those aren't as DPS intensive.

What is your friends accuracy?

Is he weaving in the out of class buffs like Internal Release?

Make sure he understands that have heavy thrust up is more important then any other button on his keyboard.

Raw DPS numbers in that fight aren't always the best. I will some times lax on the aoe phases if we have two BLM's for example. My raw DPS numbers go way down but we burn those dreads like no one's business because I have all my cooldowns and a full TP bar :)

My burst has gone up to ~450 DPS or so when opening on Atomos on my i86 DRG. It's basically the opposite of MNK in that regard - front-loads massive spike damage and then drops DPS down until it steadies at a lower sustained value, as opposed to how MNK winds up, but is able to sustain at a higher DPS value.

Ok another question here. In my mnk I try not to clip my dots as it lessen it dmg, it's really hard to do that on drg tho. When ever I'm about to reapply my dots it always have around 2 to 3 seconds left, I even started adding leg sweep in my H IDC LEG P TTT, but it seems like still I'm clipping dots. Do u guys have something similar to that?

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

Ok another question here. In my mnk I try not to clip my dots as it lessen it dmg, it's really hard to do that on drg tho. When ever I'm about to reapply my dots it always have around 2 to 3 seconds left, I even started adding leg sweep in my H IDC LEG P TTT, but it seems like still I'm clipping dots. Do u guys have something similar to that?

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You do the TTT combo twice before going back to IDC. In between the combos you alternate Ph and HT.

HT IDC Ph TTT HT TTT Ph IDC HT TTT... etc.

I finally have my Allagan Trousers Of Maiming tonight on my coil run. Determination is over 300 now. I just my need Tremor Earrings of Striking off of Titan extreme mode. That's going to be torture.

Well...beat Twin tonight and got my Visor finally.

Now, one more Coil before 1-5 are open for free-lotting...maybe my Gloves and Ring will drop then...

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Well...beat Twin tonight and got my Visor finally.

Now, one more Coil before 1-5 are open for free-lotting...maybe my Gloves and Ring will drop then...

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Nice! Great jarb!

Great job on the writeup,
seems a little overwhelming so will hold off for my lancer becoming drg, lol

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Well...beat Twin tonight and got my Visor finally.

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Are these meant as two separate comments, since the Visor drops in T4? Boots/Bracelet/Weapon are T5.

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Originally Posted by Belial

Are these meant as two separate comments, since the Visor drops in T4? Boots/Bracelet/Weapon are T5.

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I have seen the Visor twice so far (for reference on bad luck...8 Chokers of Striking. I really wish I was joking about that). Lost it the first time. Still have yet to see the Maiming Ring or the Gloves.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I have seen the Visor twice so far (for reference on bad luck...8 Chokers of Striking. I really wish I was joking about that). Lost it the first time. Still have yet to see the Maiming Ring or the Gloves.

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I too am missing the ring and gauntlets still to finish off my set. Also the choker. But in all fairness I got Spear/boots at the same time in T5 and the week after got the bracelets.

Want some real reference on bad luck? I originally started as a Monk main. I had started working on Coil 1-4 about a month - a month 1/2 in. I have still not seen the Monk gauntlets, boots or visor drop, even after switching Main/Off classes.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I have seen the Visor twice so far (for reference on bad luck...8 Chokers of Striking. I really wish I was joking about that). Lost it the first time. Still have yet to see the Maiming Ring or the Gloves.

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I got my Maiming Ring last week. Gloves dropped on Tuesday during my run, but I passed on it because I had it over a month ago. The main tank got it instead. Going to try to do T4 tonight or tomorrow for my visor since the main tank in my group is going on a trip to Tokyo for a month.

Seriously guys, nobody cares which drops you're still waiting for or what dropped in your last run. Yes it's RNG, some people get lucky and some don't - unless you complete your BiS with Allagan Spear, it's really not relevant or interesting to the entire Dragoon community... >___<'

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Originally Posted by Exa_Jyn

Seriously guys, nobody cares which drops you're still waiting for or what dropped in your last run. Yes it's RNG, some people get lucky and some don't - unless you complete your BiS with Allagan Spear, it's really not relevant or interesting to the entire Dragoon community... >___<'

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says the guy in all myth gear, har har har!

Well, other discussion has dried up a bit and we need something to keep us ahead of the Monk thread.

anybody remember what the timer for DS is? 35-45 seconds?

It was very hard passing on Gae Bolg Zenith last night.. I love Dragoon but my FC loves my Warrior :/

If they are introducing new tomes in 2.2, it's likely there will be another relic upgrade, right? Yoshi did just mentioned to dust off our relics. Do you think Zenith will be a requirement for the next upgrade?

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

It was very hard passing on Gae Bolg Zenith last night.. I love Dragoon but my FC loves my Warrior :/

If they are introducing new tomes in 2.2, it's likely there will be another relic upgrade, right? Yoshi did just mentioned to dust off our relics. Do you think Zenith will be a requirement for the next upgrade?

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Whisky why don't you just get the Holy Lance? It is like a 0.11 dps upgrade over Gae Bolg Zenith.. lol (also helps with acc cap)

Question to people who have done the 1 tank soak method on Twintania.

I am a bit confused on the part where we must kill all Hygea together with a mage lb. How do you ensure that Ascelpius gets the 4 stack debuff but the MT avoids it?

Is there a way to LOS the debuff or maybe sprint at the perfect timing to out range the debuff as the hygea die simultaneously near Ascelpius?