History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

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Originally Posted by Shampooo

damn shiyo, why'd u let that happen? did anyone find peregrines solution other than just NERF. i dont wanna sort through 42 pages of this crap

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Nope, according to Peregrine there is no other solution than to nerf, because apparently, fixing emnity functions and creating some monsters in tribes capable of Archer-hate is far inferior to cutting up multipliers. Because apparently straight nerfing worked SO well in FFXI which is why it took years of scaling up and down to make Black Mages and Rangers hit a comfortably medium. Oh- and also apparently we don't know enough to assess that this time it's a matter of the mechanics adjusting to the character needs, because apparently it isn't.

I think my sarcasm rank just went up, better nerf it before my wit makes the trolls feel threatened.

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Originally Posted by Verecund

Your only solution has been to reduce damage output.

So basically, there will still be fights where everyone rolls archers so that the healers only have to focus on healing the tanks, while the archers can sit safely far away dealing slightly less damage than before. It may take longer, but it is the same essential damn thing that we have now.

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this is why the solution is to make it so that no one is invincible, and create monster parties that arent as simple to tank as 1 guy does everything, or sleep everything and do it one at a time.
Introduce mobs that get enraged by specific tactics, who are partied with different mobs, make people use the roles effectively.
If you create a class that can do superior damage, but has less defense, it should be in threat of taking dmg
If you create a class that can tank and do damage, your important game situations, should find them doing this
If you create a class that has a wealth aoe abilities, your important game situations should take advantage of this.
If you create a class that has the best single target damge reductions, your important game situations should take advantage of this

Make mobs party battles with different types of monsters, with different enimty biases, and different skill sets. some resistent to sleep with those that are suceptible, some that hate mages, some that hate rangers. A big guy who can do a ton of dmg, and midrange damager all hanging out? Suddenly way more roles, and skill sets are important.
How about NMs whose body parts are actually different mobs, a dragon whose legs wings and body can all attack, and have separate enimity

I'd like to point out that history only suggests a possible future, not predicts an absolute one. Also, since their is a lack of proof on your end Peregrine, as you have yet to bring more than two examples of archers being overpowered, one being under question until further testing is done, the second (3k damage on Dodore) a complete lie (I count ~1200 myself). And finally I'd like to point out that, with all in-game evidence taken into account, archers are not invincible, they can be stunned, paralyzed, sleeped, KO'd, ect... I've seen it happen.

Is there any other evidence you wish to display, sir.

If Archers were nerfed right now to deal damage lower than Pugilist, Marauder, and Lancer then no one would use them.

Why? AoE heals.

Who cares if the melees get hit by AoE? They're gonna get healed when the tank gets healed anyway. Archers would be totally worthless until AoE healing gets nerfed, and then we wait another 3 months for that to get fixed.

There is so much stuff wrong with stats and the current battle system that singling out one thing like Archer being an OP DD is futile. Here is what Yoshida and crew are currently working on:

-Make allocated stats more significant or scrap the system
-Make secondary stats on gear actually do something
-Revamp requirements on equipping gear and abilities
-Add Jobs/specializations/talent trees

These things will eventually be the backbone of class balance. If all that gets done and we still have problems, THEN:

-Nerf archer damage
-Nerf AoE heals
-Nerf emulate
-Nerf THM DoT
-Nerf Shock Spikes
-Buff GLA damage
-Nerf/Buff anything else I'm forgetting

People in this thread are putting way too much emphasis on one thing. If SE just fixes that one thing and nothing else, we're going to have another 3 months - 4 years of worthless archers instead of OP ones. Devs need to be made aware of everything, not just archer damage output. Otherwise, you come across as someone with a personal vendetta against rangers and nothing else.

Wait for the groundwork to be laid then re-address class balance. SE could add something in the new job system that would totally eclipse Archer damage (e.g. haste + march x2 for melees). Oh lordy, just the thought of adding haste into this game sends shivers down my spine. CON-only haste, butthurt THMs, complaints about having to maintain cycles, hahahah.

nerfing aoe heals is a bad idea in a game with party combat, and its the main mechanic of two classes to do aoe

too much nerfing, buff people up

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Originally Posted by kro

People in this thread are putting way too much emphasis on one thing. If SE just fixes that one thing and nothing else, we're going to have another 3 months - 4 years of worthless archers instead of OP ones. Devs need to be made aware of everything, not just archer damage output. Otherwise, you come across as someone with a personal vendetta against rangers and nothing else.

Wait for the groundwork to be laid then re-address class balance. SE could add something in the new job system that would totally eclipse Archer damage (e.g. haste + march x2 for melees). Oh lordy, just the thought of adding haste into this game sends shivers down my spine. CON-only haste, butthurt THMs, complaints about having to maintain cycles, hahahah.

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Well it isn't just that- The thread focuses on the concept of NERFING- or lowering numbers to achieve balance, when this is not a numerical issue but a dynamic one. Most of XIV's problems can be fixed with simple mechanical adjustments- because Pre-Yoshida XIV had the right numbers in the right places, but the wrong dynamics.

Yoshi-P really hasn't told us so much how he plans to mold the game- so much that he plans to do so. What we do know about the future is more along the lines of...
-Auto-Attack
-A specific Job system in addition to the dynamic Discipline system
-Changes to the Stat system/Level and Rank systems
-Job specific equipment in addition to open ended equipments
-More content for all players of all levels (if there are any)

I do agree that this argument is pretty frivolous, though as most of us know that it isn't a threat to gamestate- and some of us are just unwilling to admit it- It seems more along the lines of a class-envy thread

No, if it were class envy I'd just be you. I am not jealous of the kind of player who abuses archer, and never will be. They flit from job to job, breaking everything as they go like children under the recommended toy age.

AoE heals wouldn't keep people from quitting archer. They don't get slowed, slept, paralyzed...they don't get any status afflictions that difficult enemies use because they're out of range.

You be my guest and spam cure III on everyone who'se petrified. See if it helps.

Man, this thread is still going?

Stop feeding the troll!

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Originally Posted by Augury

Well it isn't just that- The thread focuses on the concept of NERFING- or lowering numbers to achieve balance, when this is not a numerical issue but a dynamic one. Most of XIV's problems can be fixed with simple mechanical adjustments- because Pre-Yoshida XIV had the right numbers in the right places, but the wrong dynamics.

Yoshi-P really hasn't told us so much how he plans to mold the game- so much that he plans to do so. What we do know about the future is more along the lines of...
-Auto-Attack
-A specific Job system in addition to the dynamic Discipline system
-Changes to the Stat system/Level and Rank systems
-Job specific equipment in addition to open ended equipments
-More content for all players of all levels (if there are any)

I do agree that this argument is pretty frivolous, though as most of us know that it isn't a threat to gamestate- and some of us are just unwilling to admit it- It seems more along the lines of a class-envy thread

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This +1

I think he mad because CON is one of the least useful classes at the moment. He's saying ranged jobs in mmos are flawed but wont apply the same to his own class.

All the people with the jealous argument again. You all really do have nothing left to say. Totally shot down.
I'm not jealous of any of you all, or your job. Clearly. You can nerf conjurer to well below the output of archer because I can heal and perform sleeps, cast remote AoEs, and remove status effects.

Watch that marauder level in my profile creep up. You'll also see archer pop up there shortly. I'm not jealous of you. I am you, without the affect and bias. I truly only care about total balance. You, on the other hand, are just a biased fan of your job. Look at all the archers. Just like rangers.

Won't keep me from playing you. Or calling for your nerf even when I do.

Yall are just finished. Archer's going to be reduced in power, and this was your only chance to stop it. And you just sat there for 50 pages and made the same fail arguments that rangers did as if that was going to change the outcome.

Rack em up.