Lack of End Game Content

FFXIV is for casuals not for the hardcore with no job or care for there own time. This game was meant to be played at a casual pace not being on the game 12 hours a day every single day rushing through content at blazing speeds. There is tons to do in this game its just that most of it doesn't appeal to the hardcore players.

Just face it SE added SOME elements of hardcore to the game but it isnt going to do anything more because casuals>hardcore players because of one thing only and thats subs the casual player will be subbed longer then the hardcore players that sub for a month or two blazing through the new content then unsub.

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Originally Posted by Vonleo

FFXIV is for casuals not for the hardcore with no job or care for there own time. This game was meant to be played at a casual pace not being on the game 12 hours a day every single day rushing through content at blazing speeds. There is tons to do in this game its just that most of it doesn't appeal to the hardcore players.

Just face it SE added SOME elements of hardcore to the game but it isnt going to do anything more because casuals>hardcore players because of one thing only and thats subs the casual player will be subbed longer then the hardcore players that sub for a month or two blazing through the new content then unsub.

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I agree that Square Enix seems to prioritize casuals over hardcore players. I’ve known this ever since they nerfed crafting in 4.0 by adding Prudent Touch. The least they could do is make crafting more thought-intuitive. Instead of spamming Prudent/ Preparatory Touch every 2 seconds like a 7 year old.

What I do disagree with, is that casuals will sub longer. If anything, hardcore players will sub longer and still continue to do so. I am a hardcore crafter, I craft hundreds of pieces of endgame gear for all 8 of my servers on my data Center and earn several hundred gil a month. I have subbed since 2.x. And other players I know who are also hardcore have stayed subbed.

If anything, casual players will sub temporarily. Because they just don’t have the luxury of time.

Hardcores will in general sub longer if the game has sufficient content to do. They are more invested in the game, their team/guild, and characters.

Honestly I find it is the casuals who are more willing to jump from game to game in most situations. Hardcores tend to only leave when they get fed up with being bored and feel they have no choice. And once they leave and are hardcore somewhere else and invest in something, they are far less likely to ever come back even at an expansion.

FFXI is proof of this, Active sub count was very stable for the majority of its peak life. There was no massive increase and decrease of sub count based on was there a new expansion, was there a new patch. It stay almost the same. /See All always pulled between 3600-4500 online almost 24hrs a day on almost every server. You seen the same people for 5+ years no matter where you looked on the server. MY guild at one point on that game was made up of a majority of people who played a constant 30+hrs a week and been in the guild for 3+yrs. So I horribly disagree with casuals stay longer.

Can also look to everquest, look at the hardcore players in Classic/BC/Wotlk WoW. They all stayed subbed for the majority of the time. In WoW only after a few expansion of utter garbage did they finally give up on their investment of potentially 10yrs.

Profitability wise have 2million casuals play your game for 2months at an expansion, then dip to 750k-1mill subs, then up to 1.25 for a month, then down to 750k, repeat until next expansion. Probably makes more money then FFXI's constant 550k-600k though at its peak.

And Yoshida saying he wants people to take breaks, there is a reason he is saying this.... No dev says "You Know I want people to play our competition instead of ffxiv after a while and give them money instead of us". He is basically just admitting with this style game his team with their funding and size is not capable of delivering the amount content required to keep Mid and Hardcores playing full time. Which with as casual as FFXIV is they would need to almost triple the content being added, so it is understandable. That cost would be absurd.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

And Yoshida saying he wants people to take breaks, there is a reason he is saying this.... No dev says "You Know I want people to play our competition instead of ffxiv after a while and give them money instead of us". He is basically just admitting with this style game his team with their funding and size is not capable of delivering the amount content required to keep Mid and Hardcores playing full time. Which with as casual as FFXIV is they would need to almost triple the content being added, so it is understandable. That cost would be absurd.

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Nah, the reality is, you can never sate the entertainment of a hardcore gamer because no matter how much content you throw at them it will never be enough.

It is a plateau when it comes to how much you can invest in content for hardcore gamers in comparison to the profit margin. As it stands now they most likely have the best middle-ground to satisfy the needs of both types of gamers. In SE's head it's worth it if the hardcore community plays on 2 months cycles, taking a break on the 3rd cause that's still 30 every 2 months, if they pay by month, since you can't really do a 3/6 month if you want to take a break, so for SE it's potentially more profitable to have these hardcore gamers pay to play the game every 8 months paying 120 then it be for them to sub for 6 months at a time and pay 156/yr. The lost of money isn't that huge, it's a 36 dollar difference which isn't a big loss. Even if a person only plays on a monthly basis coming back every patch that's still 75/yr which is the cost of an average new game which is still good in their books especially if you can sustain that through a huge playerbase.

If anything, it's also better to not have a huge amount of content for hardcore gamers since the other issue is burn out. If you create to much difficult content and have players play through it aiming to be the first, then by the time they achieve everything they might be to burned out to play the game.

I consider myself a casual but I never quite "jump off" to different games. I don't do savage raids so once I hit endgame, FFXIV becomes my "background game" aka the game I can always turn to when I'm sorta bored but don't really feel like making progress in other games. It's always there, just not at the forefront (unless it's patch day). I personally take no issue with the game's update cycle. It suits my lifestyle (med student) just fine.

I do sympathize with folks who want more and more and more at endgame but... it ain't gonna happen, friends. It is just not in them to do that, and it's ultimately something that comes down to the core of their design philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Nah, the reality is, you can never sate the entertainment of a hardcore gamer because no matter how much content you throw at them it will never be enough.

It is a plateau when it comes to how much you can invest in content for hardcore gamers in comparison to the profit margin. As it stands now they most likely have the best middle-ground to satisfy the needs of both types of gamers. In SE's head it's worth it if the hardcore community plays on 2 months cycles, taking a break on the 3rd cause that's still 30 every 2 months, if they pay by month, since you can't really do a 3/6 month if you want to take a break, so for SE it's potentially more profitable to have these hardcore gamers pay to play the game every 8 months paying 120 then it be for them to sub for 6 months at a time and pay 156/yr. The lost of money isn't that huge, it's a 36 dollar difference which isn't a big loss. Even if a person only plays on a monthly basis coming back every patch that's still 75/yr which is the cost of an average new game which is still good in their books especially if you can sustain that through a huge playerbase.

If anything, it's also better to not have a huge amount of content for hardcore gamers since the other issue is burn out. If you create to much difficult content and have players play through it aiming to be the first, then by the time they achieve everything they might be to burned out to play the game.

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That's odd, because FFXI satisfied my desires back when I was 18 and played 60+ hours a week. Sky, Sea, Einherjar, Limbus, Dynamis, Salvage, Assault, HNMS. Yet somehow, now when I have a full time job and can only devote 20 hours or so a week to this game, I blow through experts/extreme/savage within 2 months. This statement is a cop-out. But I guess a lot of people here don't remember or haven't experienced what the old MMOs were like and think it's just not possible to make enough content to satisfy 'hardcore' players. As is, they can't even satisfy the midcore.

Not a raider due to internet issues but I'll add my 2 cents here from my other experiences.

I don't think you should asking for just harder fights, but better (and more engaging) designed harder fights. There are interesting ideas from normal dungeons and Alliances that could be upgraded:

- Force the team to split up far away from each other to do different mechanics that benefit the other players for example https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...e5_0cV2Awc1Rf6
- Have an Adds wave you have to kill in order à la Canals in order to prevent the boss from getting a Damage Up boost
- Have more evolving fights instead of Pattern A or Pattern B
- Have us use our mounts for a part of the fight to race or escape something, I don't know

The ideas are there, they're just in other types of available content. The forums are full of suggestions good or bad for inspiration!
They should also look at other MMOs (even the P2W ones, they still have cool mechanics in their dungeons) for references and I mean MMOs other than FFXI and WoW at some degree. References are the basis of art and design after all.
TL;DR I suggest you ask for better quality battles with higher replayability value than what we have now instead of simply more content easily zerged through.

Of course, I believe the Devs should step away from Boss Rush "raids" and actually do proper ones. The type that lasts at least an hour and you can't binge Netflix on your second monitor. A small arena with a boss where you fall off just feels bland, let us interact with the environment more! Ultimate is the ultimate progression goal but other than those boss rushes, what other type of hard combat content is there?

Combat content is end-game because it's the main focus of FF14. You can't really level up your crafters to 80 unless you complete ShB as a main Disciple of War or Magic. So since it's the main focus of FF14, doesn't it make sense to have an actual hard and challenging post-story? To people moaning that they can't access the story of that raid, well you gotta put in effort to get that shiny carrot now don't you?

The main issue as many noted is the funding. SE isn't giving back nearly enough to their cashcow and that is preventing us from actually getting better stuff whether it's QoL or more content in general. The consequences of that is a divided fanbase that will attack each other and to hell with the ones who hate it or dare criticize it (the classic "Well why don't you unsub and play something else you ungrateful lot"). Don't always be grateful for what we have, ask for more. It keeps them on their toes and prevents complacency to a level. Why aim to amaze when they're just content with whatever they have?

As for people quoting Yoshida on being able to take breaks, I can't really do that while I'm shackled to my house on a popular server inside a shitty Housing system now can I? He might say one thing, but some game additions go counter to and prevent that.

All in all, even though it's not my type of content, I believe having more (and better-designed) fights for those players loving a hard challenge is a good thing for the community since it clearly states a post-MSQ goal point for its main gameplay focus and thus might get more people to dip their toe in it. You don't have to play 30 hours a week to progress through hard content in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

You enforce a lot of your points by referencing big wow figureheads such as Asmongold or hazelnutty out of context. WoW giving you OPTIONS for ways to gear yourself and progress your character is a GOOD thing. You can enjoy things like PVP or world quests(fate equivalents) while also receiving some decent gear on the side. That's not what people dislike about BFA. What they dislike is that these options have a chance to titanforge, essentially winning the lotto and turning that throwaway piece of gear into something potentially better than anything you'd get from the most difficult or competitive content available of that patch cycle. You can imagine that doesn't sit well with the more hardcore playerbase.

But the principle that anything you put time into should give something back is not a bad one, just executed very poorly by blizzard. I would PVP more on 14 if it gave me a modicum of a reward, and didn't feel like I was doing it just for the sake of doing it.

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It isn't optional if you want BiS.

It isn't decendent side gear, it is gear that is better than what can be obtained from the raid.

Imagine some of your best gear coming from beat tribes rather than savage; then imagine being a raider who dislikes beat tribe dailies.

Yes, titanforging is hated, but that's actually a separate issue to making non-raid content be required for some of the best raid gear.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Hardcores will in general sub longer if the game has sufficient content to do. They are more invested in the game, their team/guild, and characters.

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No, it's completionists that stick around forever. I suppose it's a different kind of hardcore. But the completionists are the ones who are out here trying to get all the classes to 80, get all the FATE achievements, get all the PVP gear before the Garo event ends, etc. And the completionists are not the ones complaining about there being "nothing to do."

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Originally Posted by Airget

Nah, the reality is, you can never sate the entertainment of a hardcore gamer because no matter how much content you throw at them it will never be enough.

If anything, it's also better to not have a huge amount of content for hardcore gamers since the other issue is burn out. If you create to much difficult content and have players play through it aiming to be the first, then by the time they achieve everything they might be to burned out to play the game.

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Yet a number of games do manage to sate the more hardcore gamers with far less content than most MMOs get. Just go watch a few challenge speedruns of various games such as a Super Metroid 14% run or find out how much time some have put into games like Diablo 2, Disgaea, or Dark Souls to name a few.

As to the burnout front, in FFXI it was never the hard content that burnt me out. Sure I would need breaks from it but that was due to being tilted thanks to frustration or being tired. What would burn me out was farming stuff for gil for high end items, having to solo farm/attempt things related to RMEs because most people would rather get a root canal then help someone else out if they couldn't immediately use them in return. When I was having to solo grind for progress is when I burnt out, not when I was doing hard group content.