WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

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Originally Posted by Aegis

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If they had passed it had you sang then yes, it's ALSO your fault... why do you keep pointing the finger at other classes? This thread is about bards. Shit happens, how you (you bards, not you personally) react to it is what makes you good or bad. You have abilities to support the party and you should use them. Other people's performances are not an excuse to not use them: they don't stand when a tank refuses to provoke off dps aggroing and it is not an excuse for healers not to heal avoidable damage. Same goes for bards.

This thread is dropping my intelligence the more I read.

Singing takes 1 button press. 1 gcd. And any bard not doing it should be thrown right out of a party if they insist upon not singing when asked, and jesus Christ I hate needing to ask for it when I play my blm....

I can accept healers keeping the group up and not dpsing, but a bard not singing is absolutely unacceptable considering how lol braindead easy it is to do it.

Fact is, when I run low lvl roulette I don't sing songs.... ever.

THen again, I cant remember the last time I used bard for roulette since the que's TAKE SO LONG. I just use my tank, even in the expert and high lvl roulette though, I never see bards sing.

Thing is though, its not going to increase a blm's dps by that much. Literally it may go up by 10dps which is moot in dungeons as there really isnt any dps checks.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

If for example, on HM primals, someone is screwing up an unreasonable amount, I see no reason to "support" these people. I'd rather leave them dead, save my Mana and kill the boss with the remaining players.

They get carried and we have a hassle free kill, as I have more than enough MP to solo heal HM's, providing I *don't* keep raising people who die over and over.

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The world is not black or white. If someone does good but has a sudden lag spike and dies from, say, Titan's plumes, you won't raise him? Even if he was one of the top DPS of your team?
You're assuming that if someone make a mistake, he/she is instantly the most terrible player on earth and doesn't deserve a raise. But that's not true at all.

It's the same as saying "This healer is low on MP for whatever reason, but I would rather see us wipe than using my balad". This is wrong on so many levels... Good luck finding a static and saying them that you cannot tolerate a single mistake :/.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

A lot of the bullets you made seem to fault more to the other party members which funnel it to the bard, such as the healers needing mana (with very few exceptions), or the MNK/DRG needing TP after a raise.

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So what? Are you saying that if other make mistakes, you should not help them recover?

As for the rest of your post :
- If mages are on your team, you have full MP and Foe is not on, you're doing it wrong. Period. Exceptions just confirm this general rule.
- Yes, helping a MNK/DRG getting back on his feet and start his rotation again will lead to an overall better DPS rather than you just ignoring them. Just do simple maths.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

If they had passed it had you sang then yes, it's ALSO your fault... why do you keep pointing the finger at other classes? This thread is about bards. Shit happens, how you (you bards, not you personally) react to it is what makes you good or bad. You have abilities to support the party and you should use them. Other people's performances are not an excuse to not use them: they don't stand when a tank refuses to provoke off dps aggroing and it is not an excuse for healers not to heal avoidable damage. Same goes for bards.

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But my point is there is no fight where the DPS, once raised, would run out of TP maintaining their normal rotation. All those fights have breaks where Titan/Garuda/Ifrit/Whoever jumps or becomes invulnerable for a few ticks. Enough for TP to regain and for the DPS to at least maintain TP-equilibirum, more likely gain TP. Singing a song in this case lowers the overall party DPS by lowering your own.

In those fights where that kind of solid burn is needed, the extra TP you've given the guy with the 15% stat reduction at the cost of your own damage isn't going to save you. A death in that burn phase has just wiped the party. Even if it weren't, the loss of your own DPS is probably not going to be offset by the enhanced DPS of someone affected by weakness.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

The world is not black or white. If someone does good but has a sudden lag spike and dies from, say, Titan's plumes, you won't raise him? Even if he was one of the top DPS of your team?
You're assuming that if someone make a mistake, he/she is instantly the most terrible player on earth and doesn't deserve a raise. But that's not true at all.

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Re-read my post and you'll see I saw if they screw up an "unreasonable amount", 1 death during a primal and I'll raise, if they die again I'll only raise if I consider them to be worth my Mana, it's rare for me to raise the same person twice.

My exception to this is if the other healer dies (on HM primals), i'll leave them dead and not raise them even once, that is because I get more commendations this way ;D mwrhrhr :D



P.S. "Sudden lag spikes" somehow seem to happen to the same people over and over ^_-

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Originally Posted by Aegis

But my point is there is no fight where the DPS, once raised, would run out of TP maintaining their normal rotation. All those fights have breaks where Titan/Garuda/Ifrit/Whoever jumps or becomes invulnerable for a few ticks. Enough for TP to regain and for the DPS to at least maintain TP-equilibirum, more likely gain TP. Singing a song in this case lowers the overall party DPS by lowering your own.

In those fights where that kind of solid burn is needed, the extra TP you've given the guy with the 15% stat reduction at the cost of your own damage isn't going to save you. A death in that burn phase has just wiped the party. Even if it weren't, the loss of your own DPS is probably not going to be offset by the enhanced DPS of someone affected by weakness.

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If it doesn't help the party don't do it then... no one's asking you to sing because they like your voice. But if it does, there is no excuse not to do it. Especially with foe.

My problem with singing is
A its horrible buffs, where is the hp regen, the haste (to increase skill and spell cooldown..oh right...selene does that instead) having a lackluster run boost that ends while in combat (Wtf is the point than?) I cant tell if people are effected by song or not because its a small ass icon

B 90% of the time I ask the party what they prefer to have and I get silence....so I sing nothing, its a two way street kiddies you refuse to let me know what you want and ill refuse to do it.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

^^^ doesn't understand Holy.

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If you spam holy at bards expense - you are doing it wrong. Holy is a good way to lessen healing (but you will be capped after 3 holy) and burn excessive mana for some additional damage. You should always, if you heal properly and you tank properly geared, have enough mana to do 3 holy and then heal tank through the rest of fight.
If a bard forced to maintain Ballad during fight to help you with mana - party will loose more DPs that it gain with your holy.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Scarebearz, you just said that you had a WHM alt. You should now by now that the job of healers is to patch up the mistakes of others... constantly.

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It's your job as a healer to properly manage your mana, and not just chain-res stupid people until you have zero mana. Yes, sometimes mana runs out - but at this points it perfectly clear that party is just bad. Very bad. And then you can start spam your BRD with <se.10> to get ballad.
This is how it should be in a perfect world. But reality is much simpler - most WHM have no idea how to manage mana and heal properly, have overheal more than 50% and thus often have problems.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Foe is pointless, ballad should be pointless because healers can sleepwalk their way through ST...

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If you are not in MT party - you can spam Medica every 10 seconds and stop looking at screen at all. And you'll be ok. Some people really do ST this way.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Singing takes 1 button press. 1 gcd. And any bard not doing it should be thrown right out of a party if they insist upon not singing when asked, and jesus Christ I hate needing to ask for it when I play my blm....

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It's really depends on situation. Normally bards should spend their mana on songs, but it most probably will be foe and foe only and only in specific parts of fights.
Spending mana on ballad/paeon is not just 1 click, it's also 20% of bard damage, and in most situation it's a bad tradeoff.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Re-read my post and you'll see I saw if they screw up an "unreasonable amount", 1 death during a primal and I'll raise, if they die again I'll only raise if I consider them to be worth my Mana, it's rare for me to raise the same person twice.

My exception to this is if the other healer dies (on HM primals), i'll leave them dead and not raise them even once, that is because I get more commendations this way ;D mwrhrhr :D

P.S. "Sudden lag spikes" somehow seem to happen to the same people over and over ^_-

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I don't understand.
At first, you said that you prefer a bard who never supports his party and keep DPSing, no matter what happens.
And now, you're just talking about a bard who won't sing for someone who made an "unreasonable amount" of mistakes?

Read my little chart again.
A bard who know when to sing and for who and manages to have a decent DPS is, at least "very good".

So yeah, I don't really see your point anymore.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

But my point is there is no fight where the DPS, once raised, would run out of TP maintaining their normal rotation. All those fights have breaks where Titan/Garuda/Ifrit/Whoever jumps or becomes invulnerable for a few ticks. Enough for TP to regain and for the DPS to at least maintain TP-equilibirum, more likely gain TP. Singing a song in this case lowers the overall party DPS by lowering your own.

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You are contradicting yourself here.
If there is a phase in a fight when you can't DPS, allowing TP users to recover a bit, then same goes for the bard.
If you sing for TP during these phases, lowering your damage doesn't matter since you can't DPS anyway.

So, a good bard would take this opportunity to do a TP song to give a few ticks of TP regen for the team, and then turn it off when the "invulnerability phase" ends.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

It's your job as a healer to properly manage your mana, and not just chain-res stupid people until you have zero mana. Yes, sometimes mana runs out - but at this points it perfectly clear that party is just bad. Very bad. And then you can start spam your BRD with <se.10> to get ballad.
This is how it should be in a perfect world. But reality is much simpler - most WHM have no idea how to manage mana and heal properly, have overheal more than 50% and thus often have problems.

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And if a WHM dies for whatever reason and get insta rez? You won't sing a balad to get him back up on MP? You prefer mocking that WHM saying "HAHA, YOU ARE BAD" and seing his MP sitting at 0 rather than singing a balad?

That's a bit cruel and unforgiving. Some might say "disgustingly elitist".