What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by SpectrePhantasia

Elidibus is definitely shafted in terms of screentime, which is a shame because he likely could have balanced the discussion to not be so skewed in Hydaelyn's favor, and bring back some of the nuance Shadowbringers built up, if he'd only had more scenes. That being said, I honestly really like the way his final fight was handled in 5.3, even though it is very much FF1 fanservice. I think what Berteaux was suggesting earlier was that while not Zodiark in form, Elidibus in that moment embodies what Zodiark was always meant to be, a savior made to bring about the world's salvation. The actual Zodiark you fight is a sundered husk of his former self, being piloted by a raving madman. Elidibus was the one selected to control Zodiark and stop the Final Days, he is his true heart, so in many ways he truly is as he proclaims: 'Mankind's first hero' and the true Zodiark.

And if I may also be a bit self-indulgent, I like to think with Endwalker in mind, that some of the lyrics in his theme 'To the Edge' allude to the Convocation acting without the knowledge that Venat could have provided to them, and how even he might have felt deep inside that Zodiark was a temporary solution to a much larger problem, that couldn't be seen:

"Without a compass, wandering, lost in lies of faith.
(Faith slowly wasting away)
Only alive in fighting death's amber embrace.
(Our hearts beat, loud, unafraid)
On hands and knees we pray to Gods we've never seen."

It's really interesting, it seems to me like part of him believed that there was something deeper going on, and the way the lyrics go, it makes it seem like he knew they were stumbling around blind to something important.

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I agree with your remarks on how he could've brought more balance to it - his area of self-proclaimed specialty, after all. In spite of my dissatisfaction with parts of how they dealt with 5.3, I enjoyed the portrayal of him and how he (and Hades, in his own facet, albeit bearing the trappings of darkness) was something of a WoL to the slumbering ancients. He's probably my fave character in the game alongside Hades.

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Originally Posted by Fayt1203

just so you know that theme has been going on since heavensward.
more i read more it feel like that you are just salty that none of the main cast died or the theme does not apply because none of the main cast died. it could just be me though, Everyone Interpret the story in different way ofc

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It’s in parts of ARR as well. You’re welcome to try and denote my opinion to nothing more than “salt” if it suits you. I’ve given pretty valid points outside of the scions plot, so i’m not sure what you’re getting that from. I would just like to say though that i don’t think expecting death during a world ending apocalypse is too much to ask for. I think people need to start realizing that in the end these characters are just pixels. They aren’t real people.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

She did, as we learn during her trial, she just didn't want to use it to save the First. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised given her contingency plan was to abandon the shards anyway. Regardless, the problem with knowing the future is she should've had an eye on Ardbert to ensure the Flood never happened in the first place.

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I think it’s ridiculous to say that she had that power, when using the power you’re referring to would’ve killed her and all life, including the First. And she was supposed to do this, while also knowing that the First would ultimately be saved ourselves, Minfilia (who she sent with her blessing), and Graha?

And when was she supposed to look out for Ardbert? The time between Heavensward and Shadowbringers was equivalent to over a century on the First. Ardbert’s entire life on the First could fall in the period between ARR, where Hydaelyn was drained of Her power protecting us, and his arrival on the Source on the post 3.0 quest line. When was she supposed to intervene?

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

And when was she supposed to look out for Ardbert? The time between Heavensward and Shadowbringers was equivalent to over a century on the First. Ardbert’s entire life on the First could fall in the period between ARR, where Hydaelyn was drained of Her power protecting us, and his arrival on the Source on the post 3.0 quest line. When was she supposed to intervene?

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Given the severe difficulty she has communicating even with us, on the source. I'm not sure how she could even hope to communicate with Ardbert on the first.

I feel like a lot of criticisms of hydaelyn come down to people attributing powers and abilities to her that she simply does not have, then calling her bad for failing to do anything with the near-omnipotence and omniscience she never had in the first place.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

I think it’s ridiculous to say that she had that power, when using the power you’re referring to would’ve killed her and all life, including the First. And she was supposed to do this, while also knowing that the First would ultimately be saved ourselves, Minfilia (who she sent with her blessing), and Graha?

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If she knew that the first was going to be saved with the help of Graha, then that means she knows that him and ironworks were willing to mess with time, and possibly sacrifice an entire timeline just to do it…doesn’t paint her in that much of a good light, granted she was willing to basically do the same thing with the ship and loporrits so…so much for her “children” i guess lmao.

Sorry but Venat is just as manipulative as the rest of the Ascians... she just had a different plan.

Those ancients sure did like to manipulate people/things.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Given the severe difficulty she has communicating even with us, on the source. I'm not sure how she could even hope to communicate with Ardbert on the first.

I feel like a lot of criticisms of hydaelyn come down to people attributing powers and abilities to her that she simply does not have, then calling her bad for failing to do anything with the near-omnipotence and omniscience she never had in the first place.

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Agree. It is kind of funny actually and surprising how many people wants to create stories for hydaelyn just because they are not satisfied with the current narrative haha. EW narrative might not be perfect and kind of short but I think they did well fitting everything decently well.

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Originally Posted by Garet

Agree. It is kind of funny actually and surprising how many people wants to create stories for hydaelyn just because they are not satisfied with the current narrative haha. EW narrative might not be perfect and kind of short but I think they did well fitting everything decently well.

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I don’t see many people creating stories, nor do i see a reason for people to. If they don’t like Hydaelyn/Venat this expansion is kind of a win for them because despite the narratives efforts in trying to praise her as a “herois,” if you partially analyze the story you’ll realize she’s anything but. I think this is part of the reason why so many people are saying stop looking too into things. They’re upset that you start questioning anything relating to their Mother, and when you start pointing out the holes in her entire plan and plot, you’re said to be over analyzing lmao.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

I think it’s ridiculous to say that she had that power, when using the power you’re referring to would’ve killed her and all life, including the First. And she was supposed to do this, while also knowing that the First would ultimately be saved ourselves, Minfilia (who she sent with her blessing), and Graha?

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You're free to consider such things to be 'ridiculous' if you so wish. Much as how others are free to think the same whenever the effects and consequences of the Sundering are downplayed in an attempt to try and paint Venat as pure and righteous when she admits that there was no kindness or justice in the tragedy that she wrought.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Sorry but Venat is just as manipulative as the rest of the Ascians... she just had a different plan.

Those ancients sure did like to manipulate people/things.

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And the thing is how in FFXIV manipulators have always been seen as the most evil beings, from the syndicate in Ul'dah to Thordan to Varis to Vauthry and Emet-Selch, even when they have good intention (Thordan for example).

It seems to me like Hydaelyn's character, if it were allowed to write itself, would want to be evil... something that we want to kill to free humanity of scheming gods. But it's not allowed to. Ergo so many people giving her the weird look.