I saw that BDO was mentioned earlier. I played it and well...
It only looks good on the outside. It's practically a pay to win game throwing garbage into your inventory every 5 seconds. It's a PVP game notorious for whales. As of now, Pearl Abyss has taken over and they seemed to give generous reward to newer players. All in all I wouldn't recommend it unless they fix the game from the ground up.
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04-08-2021, 03:00 PMShin96
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04-08-2021, 10:45 PMAwhaFor what it is worth WoW you will always be a cool kid to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by WoW
I am rooting for you man, I am always a fan of a good underdog story. You raise the fourm troll hierarchy, via any means possible. -
04-09-2021, 01:34 AMWoWI always knew you were a man of culture the moment I saw we had matching hairstyles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awha
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04-09-2021, 08:18 PMSaidosha
Seeing this pop up again, I'm going to look at it from another angle.
It's actually time for gamers to seek legal ownership of their character data, and with that, an expectation of certain rights and reparations when a host service decides to terminate access or take steps leading toward that eventuality. This would mean mandatory and concise explanations about rule violations with the ability for the player to converse with staff for confirmation and clarity.
Tangentially, in the event XIV ever shuts down, has changes in regional access, or other aspects that result in the player being unable to play their character, steps should also be mandated to compensate for the cost of the product/subscription or the code released into the wild for willing parties to host servers at their own discretion. Part of this is for the overall preservation of the game, but we're also at a point in gaming history where entire digital platforms have shut down forever (Wii shop), things like mobile games being cancelled (and with that all player investment gone), and the fact these things will continue with companies like Sony shutting down another market and 2000+ games this coming July.
So, while these XIV happenings may be instigated by some players trolling others because they don't like RP (of ANY sort), it's also evident we're dealing with the reality SE isn't respecting their own players and customers through vagueness, ambiguity, and pandering to the whims of triumphant haters masquerading as white knights. People trying to point to the ESRB, citing trafficking, grooming, or other illicit activities is otherwise pure speculation and quite likely slander without evidence. I could argue it's also as likely that someone has successfully compromised the GM system/toolkit and is going vigilante against RPers at their leisure. Would SE ever admit that the case? Quite likely not. At best, they might review and overturn, but even then, that may require an oppressive media backlash (Think XI-style Pandemonium Warden coverage), which would further require some level of fame from the affected prior.
We've already got people in this very thread stalking other players, seeing they're associated with one site/event, and just assuming that's all they do so they shouldn't be listened to or even banned themselves. To me, that's like saying someone is an alcoholic because they have a drink now and then. It's just not how reality works. People have different moods, desires, and whimsies. Not liking ERP is fine. Not wanting to see ERP in public is 100% understandable. Hoping ERP will never happen because you want to go all iron fist of tyranny, however, is a war you'll never win. That's just my experience managing RP games over the past 20 years talking, further knowing it can be harnessed for the health of the player base. When it comes to the concerns of children, this is otherwise where parents need to step in and be aware of what their kids are doing online. Chat filters can handle the rest. And if you actually SEE something, not just THINK you see something, THEN you can step in.
But yeah, maybe it's time players start looking into finding a good lawyer. Or we start tugging on the sleeves of our political representatives to protect our digital rights and force the industry's hand at large to do better. -
04-09-2021, 09:25 PMBunniEclair
The day I have to get a lawyer to enjoy a video game is the day I find a new game to play. No thanks.
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04-09-2021, 10:13 PMKaurhzSE respects you and your rights, the GMs just aren't at liberty to go around sharing logs like no tomorrow, for the simple fact of the matter they aren't adequately trained enough and run the very high risk of violating their own privacy policy; more specifically sharing your data with other players. Hence why they do not share much information beyond what is specified in an email. If you want more as has been mentioned several times you'd need to submit a subject access request for the logs pertaining to your data with everything else on other players being redacted. Now, if you want to criticize the GM team for not doing an adequate enough job of mentioning this to you when you get sent to the GM jail, then by all means. But the fact remains you and you alone agreed to the Terms of Service, which in no uncertain terms said you agree to several other terms and documents as specified by 11.7, if you did not take the liberty to read that, or if anyone didn't for that matter then it is their own fault- and I personally do not sympathize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saidosha
It is not slander, no. People are largely pointing out and highlighting that mature venues run the risk of attracting people, not of appropriate age, which that in itself makes the venue a facilitator of such activity. You're hardly going to know for certain what goes on behind those doors unless you're policing the private conversations which occur. But the very fact all of these things are a very good possibility in a mature venue is reason enough. Not to mention you just don't put a child in a mature venue irrespective of what that venue may contain. Again, you adhered to the Terms of Service which specifies you agree to act accordingly to the minimum age bracket specified; 13. That does mean you don't publicly advertise a mature vendor. [18+] tag is as good as non-existent. You have no way to feasibly enforce that tag in the end. Regardless of whether you're the parent or not, you still have a responsibility for the safety and wellbeing of that child, to the extent at the very least where you aren't doing inappropriate things. It's ironic you'd take the crusade of legality regarding data, privacy, and respect therein. When the law itself doesn't take too kindly to this parent blame excuse. That would be called endangering. -
04-09-2021, 10:18 PMShin96Or just play Ace Attorney. You hit two birds with one stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by BunniEclair
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04-10-2021, 12:10 AMSaidoshaThe legality does go beyond the RP issue, however. This just happens to be one aspect of it. Digital media is weirdly unique in that it frequently tries to claim we don't own what we've purchased and can subsequently be taken away for whatever reason with the contracts coming AFTER sales and commonly having no refund policies because once something like a game key is used, that's pretty much it for it unlike trading discs around in the olden times. There are times where the choice of finding another game will be made for you, be it with closures or unexpected bans, and with that, an unlikelihood you'll get your character data or compensation for game buys/subs/DLC/etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by BunniEclair
To put it another way, it'd be like buying a car and one night the dealer decides they no longer want that model on the road because they want to put out something else. You wake up and it's gone. You didn't miss payments. It wasn't recalled for some mechanical defect. They just take it away. Some might argue this doesn't happen precisely because it is a physical good (and ignoring the existence of repo men), but let's consider other shady practices like planned obsolescence or Apple slinging an update that almost vaporized the batteries of older phones. There are marked efforts going on to deter our ownership of things, or things we can do with them once they are ours, including but not limited to tamper-proofing or proprietary parts. Justifications frequently flirt with safety arguments, too. Others try to cite anti-piracy. In the end, it usually boils down to corporations trying to pass themselves off as the victims and the user experience must suffer to make them feel better.
Of course, individually we should never need a lawyer to play a video game. The real problem is too many people have been sleeping on digital consumer rights for too long and tend to default to the conclusion that ToS are immutable law. It also doesn't help these same corps can legally bully an individual who doesn't have their own immense financial backing or expertise. That's where the collective collaboration comes in through things like class action suits, or the alternative political channels. But as is, people being banned for RP here and there won't make waves. That's why I mentioned Nintendo and Sony's pending plans as alternative abuses of the consumer's access to things they paid for. Those will affect far more people, and even if it's not personally you today, someday with some other "service" it will be. -
04-10-2021, 12:24 AMKaurhzBut the Terms of Service specifies:Quote:
Originally Posted by Saidosha
You were also prompted with this agreement which contained this very thing and is additionally prompted about any additional changes to the Terms of Service when you log in to the game. This very agreement that you yourself accepted prior to even making your character. You relinquished any given right you had or have to complain about this when you accepted these very Terms. There is no attempting, nor trying on their behalf. You in no uncertain actions consented to this very clause and all others therein. Yes, it is unique to digital media, it is also something you unequivocally accepted. The only rights you have as far as this is concerned is what they've highlighted here in the above exhibit, or those outlined in the Privacy/Data Policy which they're mandated to do so.Quote:
YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.
This is a potential false equivalence. You accepted the very terms and service, or any contract contained therein with the product, be it digital or physical that you purchased. Which highlights the rights you have, and the rights they have. You, once again ironically clicked accept, or even signed, with your signature consenting to these very things. So as far as the law is concerned, and as far as the contract is, you consented to it. Which means you relinquished all rights to complain. The law doesn't excuse these contracts, or Terms on the basis that people were too negligent to bother reading them; read them in the future before you consent.
Upon consent of these Terms of Service, the agreement between you, and the contract creator, or merchant, or whatever arbitrary term you want to assert become a legally binding contract. So yes, they are largely immutable laws when you consent to them. You don't get to sue out of negligence or inability to read the contract or Terms. If you don't want to let them bully you then you make sure you thoroughly read and understand the clauses and terms contained therein before hitting accept or slapping your signature on something. -
04-10-2021, 01:18 AMAwha
To be fair subjects reflecting the modern era are poorly reflected within our legal system. I did agree with that.
Would be nice if they reflected the the times a little better. Though I understand the complexities that go with that.