Primal drop system, still no changes?!

SE's Balance, LMAO makes me laugh...

good job SE.

Reposting what I posted a while ago since it seems that some players have a hard time understanding that "being able to pass items to party members" is more or less the same as increasing drop rate in the end and shortening the lifetime of the event.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

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Originally Posted by Enma

Hundreds of people pointed out that Primal drop system is broken, disheartening and annoying. And with 1.21 patch nothing has changed... Today I made 3 runs of Moogle with a new friend who never cleared it, he dropped 2 weapons! I'm still stucked a 1 only weapon after 60+ runs... I'm losing hopes about Primal fights, and don't feel excited at all about Garuda's fight incoming. These things ruin the game experience of players. Please check it! :(

P.S.
People prefer to complain about Anima...

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As if DEVs weren't aware of this issue, including Yoshida himself. Stop taking them for idiots :/ They played other MMORPGs, they know how it works and that the current system is crap.

Why does it remain in place then? Check the current state of XIV, with little to no content at all... The only reason people are still doing Ifrit or Mog today is because (or thanks to) the bad drop system...

If we were to have a proper system which would in the end, raise the chance for players to obtain the weapon of their choice, then no one would even bother to do that content again (me the first). That's also why we never received a proper "dev answer" regarding this "issue" (more like game design decision), because DEVs can't say "Hey guys look, our game is so empty that we are forced to find stupid methods to virtually increase its lifetime..."

Modifying drop rate of existing content can be done without the need of a full maintenance... Yet nothing is done, because DEVs wants you to play the game this way.

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Why do people still expect DEVs to "justify" their decision? Do you know any company that would be willing to say to their customers "we make it that bad so you waste more time on it"? Nope.

Clearly SE is happy with the current ratio of players with Ifrit weapons to players without Ifrit weapons. It's called balance, and maintaining balance, and ensuring that the whole of Eorzea doesn't have 7 Ifrit weapons sitting in their inventories and a further 7 in their retainer(s).

I personally think a lot of people exaggerate a LOT about how times they've fought Ifrit (sure you've fought Ifrit over 9000 times but how many have you actually beaten him?) and only ever received 1 totem. I've probably done about 50 runs - I have 5 weapons and have collected over 10 totems (through drops and also a passing /random system). The loot system is fine - it is balanced and when you stand in Uldah don't tell me you don't see Ifrit/Moogle weapons everywhere you turn. So you personally have been unlucky? Deal with it. The solution is not to break balance.

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Originally Posted by Tadacho

Clearly SE is happy with the current ratio of players with Ifrit weapons to players without Ifrit weapons. It's called balance, and maintaining balance, and ensuring that the whole of Eorzea doesn't have 7 Ifrit weapons sitting in their inventories and a further 7 in their retainer(s).

I personally think a lot of people exaggerate a LOT about how times they've fought Ifrit (sure you've fought Ifrit over 9000 times but how many have you actually beaten him?) and only ever received 1 totem. I've probably done about 50 runs - I have 5 weapons and have collected over 10 totems (through drops and also a passing /random system). The loot system is fine - it is balanced and when you stand in Uldah don't tell me you don't see Ifrit/Moogle weapons everywhere you turn. So you personally have been unlucky? Deal with it. The solution is not to break balance.

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And what if you had killed him 200 times and had one weapon? or 300 for three weapons? I'm happy you have had such stupendous results, but i doubt you'd be so chipper if the shoe was on the other foot, so to speak. The people who say "deal with it" are the lucky SOBs who actually get good rates.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

And what if you had killed him 200 times and had one weapon? or 300 for three weapons? I'm happy you have had such stupendous results, but i doubt you'd be so chipper if the shoe was on the other foot, so to speak. The people who say "deal with it" are the lucky SOBs who actually get good rates.

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Yeah but you're forgetting, if we haven't had his success we're lying about how many runs we've done.

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Originally Posted by Nox

For the love of god, this is all great and dandy- I get that the dev team has the right to change anything they please and I understand balancing needs to be done (even last minute balancing). However, the fact remains that the main problem for the primal loot issues are not the drop rate, and neither is it about the amount of totems needed. What SE needs to fix is the way that these drops are distributed randomly even to those that ALREADY HAVE IT. Tell the dev team to seriously consider allowing these drops to be passable to other players in the run via the loot list. Honestly this is something that needs to be in by 2.0 even if it means lowering the drop rate of both totems and Ifrit weapons. If this is not done the new people who try the game at 2.0 will rage about it as well and it will just lead this game down the drain. A proper looting system is required in ANY MMO otherwise people will get annoyed at it and possibly quit the game.

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No no no you are doing it all wrong.

We want to work towards something, killing one primal = 1 token, 10 fights you get a weapon.

Allowing to pass the loot will end up with us having Darklight style drop rates and I'm willing to bet nobody wants that.

The reason why WoW is so popular is because you can go into a dungeon or raid and get a token for ever boss you kill, these tokens can be saved up and handed in to get better gear (not the best) but its good enough for most.

I would compare it to going to work for a week, strolling into the bosses office for my paycheck and him saying "wait you have to throw this dice first, you can only have your wages if you roll a 3"

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Originally Posted by Nox

I would rather see the drop once in a blue moon than see a drop wasted. It is not fair to any person running the fight (specially those looking for a specific weapon and those helping people get said weapons) if the weapon FINALLY drops and goes to someone in the party that ALREADY HAS IT. I can't even begin to say how redundant that is. Honestly its even disrespectful and in a way mocking the players- it's like saying "oh here's the drop, but wait, its not going to you but someone who already has it and can't even give it to you! trollololollololol". They need to change this, they seriously need to add a proper working loot system not a randomized loot system. My concern right now is more for 2.0 because I know for a fact that people who try this game at 2.0 will expect quite a lot from it, and this being one of the main content the game has to offer (as an MMO and as a FF title) it really does need to be fixed. Otherwise people will continue to criticize how backwards the design of this game is.

Yoshida so far you have done a great job, don't overlook something as important as this.

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He already said we are getting a revised version of need before greed in 2.0, I assume this will be part of all group content.

Of course if he would just go on record and say that in 2.0 Primal fights will have need before greed and the loot pool will be distributable through that feature then I think it would quell some of the raging.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

And what if you had killed him 200 times and had one weapon? or 300 for three weapons? I'm happy you have had such stupendous results, but i doubt you'd be so chipper if the shoe was on the other foot, so to speak. The people who say "deal with it" are the lucky SOBs who actually get good rates.

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My god this !

"It's didn't happen to me, so it couldn't possible be true !!" Derp

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No no no you are doing it all wrong.

We want to work towards something, killing one primal = 1 token, 10 fights you get a weapon.

Allowing to pass the loot will end up with us having Darklight style drop rates and I'm willing to bet nobody wants that.

The reason why WoW is so popular is because you can go into a dungeon or raid and get a token for ever boss you kill, these tokens can be saved up and handed in to get better gear (not the best) but its good enough for most.

I would compare it to going to work for a week, strolling into the bosses office for my paycheck and him saying "wait you have to throw this dice first, you can only have your wages if you roll a 3"

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WoW can do that because they have content and a complete different itemization system than we have on XIV. As of today, Ifrit/Mog weapons are still among the bests implemented in game and it's been a while...

You do not want to kill that in just "10 runs". Everyone would have stop doing Ifrit already if 10 runs was enough to get the weapon of your choice. Most of us did 50 runs at least, and not everyone have all classes to 50 (or want to bother equipping them), so Ifrit would simply be dead. New players would have a hard time finding a party of people still in need of these weapons.

Passing the loot or whatever is again completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters in the end is the probability of having the weapon of your choice. No matter how you improve the system, you modify that value. Could it be :

- Improved drop rate (weapons and/or tokens)
- Make it impossible to obtain a weapon you already own (i.e. if you have weapon A, A cannot drop again, the game replaces it with another)
- Being able to pass the weapon to anyone you want
- Reduce weapon token cost

Are DEVs eager to improve that value? No, just not yet.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

WoW can do that because they have content and a complete different itemization system than we have on XIV. As of today, Ifrit/Mog weapons are still among the bests implemented in game and it's been a while.

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Ifrit is best of slot.

Moogle is 2nd best

Garuda will be -- anyones guess.

Garlean weapons -- ??

We are getting more content with each patch and in 2.0 the amount of content will be much bigger (I assume they plan more content for the release of 2.0 or shortly after ;)

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You do not want to kill that in just "10 runs". Everyone would have stop doing Ifrit already if 10 runs was enough to get the weapon of your choice. Most of us did 50 runs at least, and not everyone have all classes to 50 (or want to bother equipping them), so Ifrit would simply be dead. New players would have a hard time finding a party of people still in need of these weapons.

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The majority of the players have multiple classes if not all battle classes at 50 now and will aim for 7/7 on most weapons, so I don't think its a matter of doing 10 fights and thats the end of it.

Also what about helping friends and LS members, are you saying once you got your main weapon you wouldn't help anyone ?

That's when we will have greed/need :)

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Originally Posted by Antipika

WoW can do that because they have content and a complete different itemization system than we have on XIV. As of today, Ifrit/Mog weapons are still among the bests implemented in game and it's been a while...

You do not want to kill that in just "10 runs". Everyone would have stop doing Ifrit already if 10 runs was enough to get the weapon of your choice. Most of us did 50 runs at least, and not everyone have all classes to 50 (or want to bother equipping them), so Ifrit would simply be dead. New players would have a hard time finding a party of people still in need of these weapons.

Passing the loot or whatever is again completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters in the end is the probability of having the weapon of your choice. No matter how you improve the system, you modify that value. Could it be :

- Improved drop rate (weapons and/or tokens)
- Make it impossible to obtain a weapon you already own (i.e. if you have weapon A, A cannot drop again, the game replaces it with another)
- Being able to pass the weapon to anyone you want
- Reduce weapon token cost

Are DEVs eager to improve that value? No, just not yet.

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Drop system is still bad it sucks to get a weapon to you don't need when you don't have that class lvled. This why ppl propose the 1 token for every win, hell it doesn't even have to be every win it could be something like an 505 drop rate i could live with that. I know quite a few ppl who only have 1 job 50 and then they get an ifrits sword they can't use.