SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

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Originally Posted by Elven

It's more interesting to see how players defend parsers passionately yet claim in no way does it give them an advantage over someone that doesn't use them. If it was allowed "No Problem" but since it isn't under the current Tos it's just cheating. Getting real tired of people not seeing this simple point.

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It gives you an advantage, the advantage of knowing how to play properly and to help you learn to be a better player.

Honestly, everything the anti-parser people have brought just stems from how such a tool even works in the first place and instead of learning how it works, they would rather just prevent its use to people that actually knows how.

You can say all you want that preventing its use is playing fair for everyone but people with a clue about playing this game are carrying a lot of bad people through content that either:

• Do not know that they are bad and that they could improve if a parser was a tool that would be legitimized.
• Know they are bad and do not care as they are being carried.

With the former having the potential to improve and the latter being a dead weight for the group that no one can get rid of due to the outdated stigma that a parser is an unfair tool when it really isn't when it is used properly.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Threaten? If I wanted to block you, I would of done it long ago. The point was that if you keep making false claims and such, people will do it. It's not a threat.

And no, they just recognize how useful it is. Many of them might use them in this game, under wraps, many may not. Doesn't change the usefulness of a tool.

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Just tell me where SE said it's okay to use a parser and we won't have a problem ever ever ever!

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Originally Posted by Elven

Just tell me where SE said it's okay to use a parser and we won't have a problem ever ever ever!

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Changing the subject now, are we?

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Originally Posted by ispano

Changing the subject now, are we?

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The point of this entire thread was SE saying it is not ok to use any third party tool, it is against ToS, if anyone changed the subject, it would be all those that are arguing that parsers are ok, and ignoring the fact that they are against the ToS.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Changing the subject now, are we?

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Not changing the subject at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you say nor does it matter what I say all I really care about is the rules.

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Originally Posted by Elven

Not changing the subject at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you say nor does it matter what I say all I really care about is the rules.

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You can care about the rules all you want, since this has nothing to do with them. Calling a parser a cheat, against the rules or not, is just simply wrong.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

The point of this entire thread was SE saying it is not ok to use any third party tool, it is against ToS, if anyone changed the subject, it would be all those that are arguing that parsers are ok, and ignoring the fact that they are against the ToS.

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And if you read the back and forth between me and Elven, you'd see it's about calling it a cheat, which it isn't. Not saying it's ok, not saying it isn't ok. Simply saying it's not a cheat, no matter how much one wants to believe it is.

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Originally Posted by ispano

And if you read the back and forth between me and Elven, you'd see it's about calling it a cheat, which it isn't. Not saying it's ok, not saying it isn't ok. Simply saying it's not a cheat, no matter how much one wants to believe it is.

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Definition of cheat: to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something
It is against ToS to use parsers, so that is breaking a rule if you use one, and the reason for using one is to gain an advantage, so by definition, it is cheating. The fact that it is against the rules is part of what makes it cheating, if it wasn't against ToS, it would still be used to gain an advantage, but since it would no longer be breaking a rule, it would no longer be cheating. It's like using a calculator on an algebra test, some teachers are ok with because they are just wanting to teach you the algebraic principles and you should already have a firm grasp on simple math, some teachers won't let you use that calculator because they think by not using one you are keeping you simple math skills honed. It is cheating to use the calculator in one class, where it isn't in the other, even though it would provide the same benefit to both.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

As a group you all don't seem to appreciate that the advantage parsers bring to the table is outright required at the very top tier of this game's content.

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Whether it makes content easier to clear or not is irrelevant. If it was actually required, it would pop up as part of the UI on its own because it'd be programmed into the game already. THAT'S required. The way you referenced it is not. It's just a personal want/preference. And no, I haven't done T6, because I know that'd be a response. I haven't even attempted it. Even if I did, and kept getting my tail kicked in, I wouldn't get a parser. It's against the TOS, bottom line. Wanting it as a quality of life thing or thinking that you NEED it to play the game is just self justification.

Not trying to take a dig at you, i'm just dealing in hard facts.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

Definition of cheat: to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something
It is against ToS to use parsers, so that is breaking a rule if you use one, and the reason for using one is to gain an advantage, so by definition, it is cheating.

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Still wrong.

The only reason a parser is currently against the ToS is because they can only be third party programs right now. Not by virtue that it's a parser, at least not until SE says otherwise. So, no, not cheating.

Because once we get addons and have player made meters/parsers via that API, third party external ones would still be disallowed, while the Addon version would not, even though they do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Still wrong.

The only reason a parser is currently against the ToS is because they can only be third party programs right now. Not by virtue that it's a parser, at least not until SE says otherwise. So, no, not cheating.

Because once we get addons and have player made meters/parsers via that API, third party external ones would still be disallowed, while the Addon version would not, even though they do the same thing.

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Addons unless made by SE are still third party tools, like I said, once they are no longer against ToS to use, using one won't be cheating, but as long as they are against ToS, by definition using one is cheating. I really don't see how you can't see this, the definition of the word cheat has been put before you, you agree that they are against ToS, you agree that using one provides an advantage over not using one. So you agree that it meets what it takes to be cheating, but still refuse to admit that it is cheating at this moment.

Who knows, later down the line SE could toss in a radar add-on or anything else, by your theory since there is a possibility that it could happen in the future, and the only way to use it now is with a third party app, then it isn't cheating to use one now, even though SE is actioning accounts that they prove to be using them now.