Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

I saw this post where Yoshi P was talking about improving job identity in 8.0 while using 7.0 as a harder encounter design concept. Yoshi P with all the respect and admiration, if you are reading forums, please consider the fact that most people's favorite iteration of DRK is Heavensward or Stormblood. Not Shadowbringers, not Endwalker and not Dawntrail.
DRK has these multiple mechanics taken from other jobs but dumbed down so they are very simple and the "flavor" is probably the ability to manage multiple smaller things at the same time but the issue is that's not a unique thing.
Please consider for 8.0 to look at the Darkside meter and the Bloodgauge and change it to something unique to the job. Other jobs have smaller simpler mechanics ( NIN's gauge / SAM's kenki gauge ) but those are on top of an already existing core unique mechanic. ( Mudras / Iaijutsu )

A simple idea would be to look into what made the job fun when it was created:
- augmenting abilities with another oGCD - gone
- very good against magic damage - still here, but nothing has been built on top of it sadly
- fast GCDs - gone
- many oGCDs - dumbed down in Dawntrail
- high risk / high reward job - gone
- big burst - still here

Notice how most of the stuff has been removed or dumbed down? The only thing is big burst.

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Read the EU forums, don't be silly, all our feedback goes straight in the trash, in fact that implies they put that much energy into it. No our feedback just sits there collecting dust. The Dark Megathreads been top of the tank forum for 3 years now...........

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I think calling that an interaction is debatable, it's just "pressing this button allows you to press this other button", basically the entire design doc of Warrior.
Interaction would be if Esteem actually copied your abilities, making it's output dependent on proper execution of your own burst window.

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Agreed, but...

The funny thing is, that's then literally just a +% damage window, which tends to have redundant impact if running a comp that already supplies you with 2-minute damage windows through raidbuffs.

Does look a hell of a lot cooler, though, and gives DRK a damage window even in solo play and groups without raidbuffs (for better or worse, as that raises skill ceiling while reducing unpunished flexibility).

Similarly, could effectively replace an oGCD per GCD's time with a GCD that the shadow self then performa instead for a sort of extreme haste window. Technically less rigid in itself, but offering more palpable variance. Etc., etc.

I'd just like to see the action pair amount to more than a DoT and an unlocked attack.

So
DRK and GNB's "new" gap closer... rip to one of the best animations on DRK.
But does anyone else think it looks kinda slow compared to Atherial Manip / Icarus / whatever the MNK skill's called?

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

But does anyone else think it looks kinda slow compared to Atherial Manip / Icarus / whatever the MNK skill's called?

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They actually are slower, certainly slower than Monk's Thunderclap. Dark Knight's gap closer isn't too bad but Gunbreaker's is especially lethargic from what I've seen.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

They actually are slower, certainly slower than Monk's Thunderclap. Dark Knight's gap closer isn't too bad but Gunbreaker's is especially lethargic from what I've seen.

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Don't they literally use the exact same animation?
Esteem uses it too and it *massively* delays his attacks.
Either way, you won't be using it more than once per encounter on average anyways.
Unironically button bloat.

Iuno.
I get the devs reasoning for wanting to cull rough divide and plunge, but... I think it's a stupid decision. Like, I get wanting to reduce the number of double weaves on tanks, but removing the damaging gap closers from the two most oGCD heavy tanks, and just giving them a pure-utility one whilst the other two tanks get theirs unadjusted feels... wrong.
Enhanced Unmend is even more of a "lmao really" trait.
Have they just... not listened to any of the DRK feedback throughout the years? Shame.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Iuno.
I get the devs reasoning for wanting to cull rough divide and plunge, but... I think it's a stupid decision. Like, I get wanting to reduce the number of double weaves on tanks, but removing the damaging gap closers from the two most oGCD heavy tanks, and just giving them a pure-utility one whilst the other two tanks get theirs unadjusted feels... wrong.
Enhanced Unmend is even more of a "lmao really" trait.
Have they just... not listened to any of the DRK feedback throughout the years? Shame.

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Yeah they have. They listened to the feedback of people who don't play Dark knight.
That's why they remove ogcd's and gave us heals.

I guess I'll just throw-in my exhausted feedback for 7.0 Dark Knight, here.

DRK was my favorite Tank by-far in Heavensward, and even though I disliked the Stormblood changes to the original HW design, DRK was still my favorite Tank in Stormblood-era, and "The Blackest Night" was an absolutely-great idea, and a great addition to the DRK Job's overall "play-feel".

...Then, Shadowbringers basically ruined Dark Knight for me — the removal of Dark Arts, and replacing it with yet another generic "Shinten-clone" attack-spam OGCD, completely-killed the feel of what made DRK feel unique and interesting to me, rotationally.

And turning Darkside into a completely-mindless clone of WAR's "Storm's Eye" only made the 5.0 changes even worse-feeling to me.

Add-in the change of Delirium to a boring "Inner Release" clone, and so much of what I liked about DRK was removed in a single Patch.

On top of that, the capstone skill being a glorified DOT with annoying animations was... "disappointing".

In Endwalker, rather than improving any of these issues, the designers apparently thought that it would be funny to add "Enhanced Unmend", "Salt and Darkness" as a... lame joke about the "Salt and Light" Hunt-mark? ...and, mechanically, a pointless follow-up to Salted Earth... and a cheezy "title drop" action called "Shadowbringer" as the L90 capstone, which was functionally just an extra 2 Edge of Shadows crammed into 2m burst windows, and which I would have considered satire if I had been informed of it before seeing the actual EW Media Tour tooltips.

...so I just gave-up and didn't even bother using DRK in EW, it's just not fun for me to play any more, and hasn't been for a long time, even though it's the Tank that I "want" to play, in terms of concept and aesthetics (not because of the cringe-y edge-lord stuff, but because I just think Darkness / Shadow powers are cool in RPGs, and enjoy the "Shadow Knight" theme and aesthetic).

And then... in 7.0 ?

...Even more of the same, with once-again none of the fundamental issues being addressed.

On top of deleting Plunge, yet another of the animations / ideas that initially made Dark Knight feel so memorable and cool to me when I first played it in Heavensward.

And just piling-on more of the "Vomiting incoherent red-and-black smears all over the place" visual "theme" that has increasingly-predominated since Stormblood, replacing the original HW presentation as more of a "Heavy physical Greatsword-swinging fighter / dirty-fighting and dishonourable anti-Paladin, who empowered her swings with bursts of Darkness". (compare Bloodspiller vs. HW Power Slash, Edge of Shadow vs. HW Reprisal/Low Blow, etc.)

Except now with cheezy 1990s Hot Topic Black-plastic Angel Wings, too... and as the L100 capstone, no less.

So yeah, non-sarcastically happy for anyone still enjoying it, because I want to like Dark Knight, so I'm glad someone can have fun with this, still.

But yeah, personally, I'm just... tired, and done.

Maybe I'll like the changes in 2027.

I have to get a new Dark Knight wishlist ready because my previous one became obsolete and I don't know to put a line through the words that I typed...

The single worst part of DRK is that TBN is a job quest skill, meaning you cannot swing a bat without finding a DRK in Holminster Switch who literally has not unlocked it. It is cursed.