The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

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Originally Posted by Argh

Th fact that ffxiv bombed so hard is absolute proof that a casual final fantasy game does not work. Chasing warcraft leads to failure. If this was ffxi-2 like it should have been the subscriber base would register in the one million plus, even before the ps3 release.....and this is a conservative estimate.

Thinking otherwise is just a sign of blatant stupidity..

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That is stupid, FFXIV did not fail because it was too "casual", it failed because there is a lack of content for "everyone".

Not to mention things like poor ui design, latency issues, all of which added to the cause of its failure.

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Originally Posted by MaxWinter

I just posted a topic in quest forumn a few moments ago , about worldwide events where everyone works together towards a goal , this would be good for the game in my view for both types of player.

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Yes yes yes! Those of us who were there at the beginning of FFXI will remember the twinkling treant event, which gave us the outpost warp ability everyone in Vana'diel takes for granted today. That was TONS of fun. It'd be awesome if SE included something like that here.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Ill try and be constructive.
If they make everything for what you call "casual", the players with more time in their hands will be done with the game in a few days.This is not healthy for the game.

The best solution is to make large events or chain of events that leads to bigger rewards in the long run requiring to complete step by step every single event in a chain. then casuals can advance slowly while people with more time can advance at a higher rate , the problem with this is that people will be done to fast , unless there is a wide range of activities to do.

This is only achievable if developers update content frequently.

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what type of casual you assuming i mean. You can have progressive content anyone can access to do that "is a time sink" with out being to long or "long to get". like bcnms where challenging but not that long to do.
cop wasn't that long to do either minus promy. Fights do not need to be 5+ hours long to be "hardcore" just make the fight hard.

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Originally Posted by Argh

The fact that ffxiv bombed so hard is absolute proof that a casual final fantasy game does not work. Chasing warcraft leads to failure.

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No, it failed for a variety of reasons, which include the following:
* While graphics quality was excellent, graphics performance was less so (much less).
* Combat was underwhelming (see talk about revamping the core combat mechanics).
* Travel without teleportation took too long.
* World assets were recycled too frequently.
* World collision felt arbitrary, and was buggy.
* Shopping sucked.
* The many menus were tedious and slow.
* Tutorials were non-existent or of poor quality.
...I could go on. Do you want me to, or can we please focus on the positive developments since launch and anticipated in the future?

It's possible that trying to be casual-friendly is impacting FFXIV's subscriber base, but how can you tell under all the other problems with it?

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Originally Posted by Argh

If this was ffxi-2 like it should have been the subscriber base would register in the one million plus, even before the ps3 release.....and this is a conservative estimate.

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Possibly. Or, like Everquest 2, it may have largely cannibalized FFXI, doubling Square's server maintenance without significantly increasing the subscriber base. That would have probably sounded the death knell for FFXI, and many of its remaining subscribers would probably not resubscribe to FFXIV for the same reasons that they didn't initially convert to FFXIV.

MMO sequels have generally not gone over well. I think it was wise of Square|Enix to try and differentiate XIV from XI, even if their execution of that vision left players disappointed. What I'm thoroughly impressed with is that Square|Enix is trying to repair the MMO rather than call it a loss.

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Originally Posted by Argh

Th fact that ffxiv bombed so hard is absolute proof that a casual final fantasy game does not work. Chasing warcraft leads to failure. If this was ffxi-2 like it should have been the subscriber base would register in the one million plus, even before the ps3 release.....and this is a conservative estimate.

Thinking otherwise is just a sign of blatant stupidity..

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The game was in no way shape or form ready for retail when it shipped out and was built too much on the 'hate' and 'disappointments' of FFXI rather than trying to build on what WAS successful. They tried to reinvent the wheel and came out with a Square-ish thing. (pun intended)

The game also has a identity crisis that basically orients it for the hardcore player willing to casually or willing to grind through the surplus.

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What I'm thoroughly impressed with is that Square|Enix is trying to repair the MMO rather than call it a loss.

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I'm impressed too... although I think it has to do with the fact that they made it a numbered FF. Failure is not an option (which makes me happy)

pretty much everyone here can't get past titles or sterotypes
1 just because a person is hard core don;t mean they are a nolifer
2 just because someone is casual don;t mean they want stif haneded to them

we are all players of mmos by right we all should do anything and everything as it isn't life but a game, and not to be taken ultra seriously, or stressed out over. No one should be forced to not enjoy even 1% of a game because of how long they play. Thats not the point of the game. It should be up to the player who is playing to decide how much of the game they want to see. Not an articial road block saying "you only play 2 hours this content requires 5 hours to do" And content/ endgame will always get added so there will be more stuff to do.
There is no need to have seperate player bases.

ps most ff rpg were casual friendly right >.>

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Originally Posted by Leknaat

The game was in no way shape or form ready for retail when it shipped out and was built too much on the 'hate' and 'disappointments' of FFXI rather than trying to build on what WAS successful. They tried to reinvent the wheel and came out with a Square-ish thing. (pun intended)

The game also has a identity crisis that basically orients it for the hardcore player willing to casually or willing to grind through the surplus.

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Exactly, FFXIV tried to be everything that FFXI is not.

It tried desperately to be different from its predecessor without regards to things that was good, and could be brought over.

still show me a post where 1 person is saying i want easy mode gimi everything now?

i can show you 10 that are not saying that.

I couldn't do several end game evts because people already had full groups, and there wasn't enough players around my time that had openings. I didn't like doing dynamis when I shoulda been sleeping, forcing myself to stay awake wasn't fun. And finding groups around me times was like finding a thread in a haystack. (worst then a needle)

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

I lol'd. ^_^

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I had too!!!!!!

this thread needed some humor :P