FF14 is not made for hardcore players.

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Originally Posted by KikiTia

It's one thing to rip on people for being slow/incompetent at high end content that is designed to be difficult. It's another thing to rip on someone for being slow/incompetent in a normal 4 man MSQ dungeon, or hell even normal raids. Not everyone wants to go at 100% speed, some can't actually. And in my experience it invariably drags out the dungeon when someone gets angry and starts throwing a fit because someone else wasn't doing things the "correct" way. Just be patient and give them time and space to learn. Coach them when you can. Just stop being an asshole. Nobody wants to listen to you tell a sprout why they're garbage at the game. Or tell them to just "git gud" without any constructive criticism in the same breath. You're wasting everyone's time as much as the sprout and you're alienating them from the community on top of it. You will survive if a dungeon takes 5 minutes longer than normal. Or even 10. You don't even have to coach them, just let them have the space to learn and try again. You were a noob once too, would you want some random person heckling you over being bad at a game you haven't even been playing for a week?

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As have said in another thread, some players don't offer that chance.

I was kicked (voted) off a run of 'Tower at Paradigm's Breach' last night. That was the second time I've been kicked off a team without really knowing why. If it was because my performance was crap, or I did something wrong, I'm not going to learn anything from it because no-one specified what I did wrong.

Sorry, I'll admit to being pretty damn bad at the game - but I'm not going to learn anything by being kicked off a team without explanation.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Sorry, I'll admit to being pretty damn bad at the game - but I'm not going to learn anything by being kicked off a team without explanation.

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Have you watched a guide for the raid? Have you checked one of the public resources regarding job rotations such as The Balance?

If you can say yes to the above then you've done enough, and they shouldn't have kicked you. But it sounds more to me like you've just become complacent with your performance and accept it instead of improving. Perhaps kinda selfish for the 7 other people in the party who one would expect to do the work so you can clear the content, no?

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

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That's something the devs and their sometimes erratic ToS enforcement as well as the additions they made to them over the years fostered and these additions were something a part of the community asked for - you can thank them and the devs listening to this feedback.
You can report someone for "enforcing a playstyle" and they even gave explicit examples for it - which includes giving advice on something, depending on how you word it. You have to be extremely careful with how you word advice or someone, somewhere might see it as a reason to report you even if you yourself asked for it and were fine with the advice.
Did you know that it is reportable if someone calls themself an idiot, dumb etc, even when said in jest? You know, the classic "oh lol I'm so dumb" after failing a mechanic?
Or that "please aoe in big pulls" can be considered enforcing a playstyle? Or "if the boss does this you have to move there"? You have to word it in a way that is vague and directed at nobody in particular and it also has to be clear that it's optional... if you feel like doing it.
I've personally never gotten reported for anything (or at least never faced consequences) and I do regularly give advice on some things or ask for something but I'm also aware that someone else might take offense by me giving advice to another person and people have been reported and faced consequences for it.

The community has grown more and more silent because some people are simply paranoid, some have personal experience with the ToS being wielded against them when trying to help, some have personal experience with advice being taken very, very badly and some simply don't want to bother with scrambling for the right words when they only want their roulette to be over.
The "you don't pay my sub" is a meme for a reason.

Kicking without warning is pretty common because of that. In DF and also in PF, where communication is definitely better. While advice on mechanics like "use sprint during the cast, helps a lot to dodge it in time" (looking at you, double red planets on Planetflinger) is common in PF, you can't really talk about dps so if there is an issue with that you get the silent boot.

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Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway

Have you watched a guide for the raid? Have you checked one of the public resources regarding job rotations such as The Balance?

If you can say yes to the above then you've done enough, and they shouldn't have kicked you. But it sounds more to me like you've just become complacent with your performance and accept it instead of improving. Perhaps kinda selfish for the 7 other people in the party who one would expect to do the work so you can clear the content, no?

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No.

I wouldn't say I've become complacent at all to be honest; I simply know my limitations. I stick to Normal level content to avoid being a hinderance in content I'm not ready for. However, I've played 'Tower at Paradigm's Breach' quite a few times and do have a fairly good grasp of what I'm supposed to do there. It didn't seem as if I was underperforming as such (though will concede that I may be wrong on that) and I didn't die too frequently. Granted I may not have been performing to the standard of others in the team but I was hardly stood in one spot doing nothing.

If this had been a 'Savage' run of something or other I'd say you were right - but it wasn't.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

some have personal experience with advice being taken very, very badly

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Yo FR though, this is truth
Had an AST in a SHB dungeon once, they didn't cast any DPS spells and didn't give cards
I politely asked them if they wouldn't mind doing some offensive spells and giving cards, and the AST and their two friends immediately told me not to place blame and flame the AST.

I've never tried giving advice or asking for anything since.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Sorry, I'll admit to being pretty damn bad at the game - but I'm not going to learn anything by being kicked off a team without explanation.

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I think the parties that are kicking you may be making a bad assumption about your performance, likely assuming that there is some kind of ignoble cause behind your performance, like afking or botting.

People generally don't explain why they're dismissing others because they don't want to end up in an argument, and are sometimes afraid of being reported, as directly telling someone "Your DPS is extremely low" is prohibited. It's easier to just kick the person and move on in most cases unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I think the parties that are kicking you may be making a bad assumption about your performance, likely assuming that there is some kind of ignoble cause behind your performance, like afking or botting.

People generally don't explain why they're dismissing others because they don't want to end up in an argument, and are sometimes afraid of being reported, as directly telling someone "Your DPS is extremely low" is prohibited. It's easier to just kick the person and move on in most cases unfortunately.

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Great... so whilst I thought I wasn't doing too badly in the content I'm more familiar with, the fact is that I'm actually performing so badly that other players either think I'm a BOT or are judging me unworthy of being in their presence?

Gods - I once theorized, here, that I might not be competent enough to play this game. It seems I'm not.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Great... so whilst I thought I wasn't doing too badly in the content I'm more familiar with, the fact is that I'm actually performing so badly that other players either think I'm a BOT or are judging me unworthy of being in their presence?

Gods - I once theorized, here, that I might not be competent enough to play this game. It seems I'm not.

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It's not really your fault. The way the game is prevents you from knowing what you are doing wrong asides from when you fail mechanics and get a vuln/die. And then people are too scared to give advice for the reasons stated previously, they're too afraid it will just end up in either an argument or a ban.

I don’t expect anyone to be an elite player though I do expect when I group with you that what I am noticing could be indicative of a money behind the screen.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

As have said in another thread, some players don't offer that chance.

I was kicked (voted) off a run of 'Tower at Paradigm's Breach' last night. That was the second time I've been kicked off a team without really knowing why. If it was because my performance was crap, or I did something wrong, I'm not going to learn anything from it because no-one specified what I did wrong.

Sorry, I'll admit to being pretty damn bad at the game - but I'm not going to learn anything by being kicked off a team without explanation.

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What's worst about this is there were probably people in that group who would have been willing to explain why and even help, but they're stifled by the ToS and how the general community mindset is to argue with advice, so they just assume the worst and silent kicks are the only option.

I don't like players who expect carries in team content or refuse to try. But at the same time if a player wanted to learn, I'd happily set aside my own spare time to teach them whatever they needed. However, in this game I'm banned from using performance recording tools to assist in that, would probably be told I'm a filthy elitist and to mind my own business if I offered and would be threatened with a ban if I explained their performance was detrimental to the team and could be improved. So why bother. Just kick the underperforming player silently or put in twice the work to carry them for no thanks, it's the only option the devs gave us.

That's the happy friendly environment the developers have built.