Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

The dev team were never going to win here. Fans of the previous titles wanted a traditional BLU. MMO fans wanted a fleshed out job. Other fans wanted something new and different. They just can’t win. Here’s a novel idea. How about we stop dissing a job that no one has even played yet and reserve all judgement until we have?

The dev team were never going to win here. Fans of the previous titles wanted a traditional BLU. MMO fans wanted a fleshed out job. Other fans wanted something new and different. They just can’t win. Here’s a novel idea. How about we stop dissing a job that no one has even played yet and reserve all judgement until we have?

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Originally Posted by Indefiinable

The dev team were never going to win here. Fans of the previous titles wanted a traditional BLU. MMO fans wanted a fleshed out job. Other fans wanted something new and different. They just can’t win. Here’s a novel idea. How about we stop dissing a job that no one has even played yet and reserve all judgement until we have?

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Blue Mage could be the most phenomenally fun job they've ever introduced, and that doesn't matter because it stops the moment I'm done with the Masked Carnival.

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Originally Posted by Indefiinable

The dev team were never going to win here. Fans of the previous titles wanted a traditional BLU. MMO fans wanted a fleshed out job. Other fans wanted something new and different. They just can’t win. Here’s a novel idea. How about we stop dissing a job that no one has even played yet and reserve all judgement until we have?

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Except for the fact that they could have won?

They could have made BLU be a fleshed out job. They could have also made it traditional BLU with having to learn spells from monsters. Which would have made it new and different, while being traditional BLU and also still being a proper job so that MMO fans could still like it.

They could have just labelled it as a "Unique" or "Special" job so that it's noted, even in-game, that the job has a different leveling and progression system as well as potential limitations (I.e. No Duty Finder while leveling up). Which would serve to alleviate potential complaints in regards to its different nature by saying "It's different. You signed up to that when you learned the job". Whilst also, putting into play a precedent for any future jobs they wish to do something different with.

But alas, instead they chose to arbitrarily restrict the class from being able to play most of the games content. Effectively, shutting out 1/3 of your noted fan base.

Also, as far as "Reserving all judgements" goes? Sure, lets wait until next week and start playing it in some actual content before we give any feedback.

Oh wait, it can't be used in actual content...

It's just disappointing that the spells and leveling seem doable in about 8-10 hours (less for those with road to 60 still active) and like chocobo racing the challenges will take a day or so to rip through, and like chocobo racing there won't really be a reason after the challenges are finished.

No one is upset that blue mage gets it's own interesting single player content. People are upset that a fan favourite is reduced to a mini game. Blue mage is about USING enemy spells, not about HOW you get them, any more than farming and saving up gil to buy spells is a core mechanic to black mage. We shouldn't be restricted from having our cake and eating it too outside of self created limitations

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

That's not what is happening though, what is happening is more akin to "WTF sqaure, I want to main BLU, your new content sucks". Thats not constructive, and does disservice to what the content actually is.

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I wouldn't say that's entirely accurate. While yes, there are those who express their dissatisfaction with words that wouldn't be considered kind, what I see a lot of people trying to do is draw attention to what we perceive as faulty logic. "You can't be kicked from content if you can't join content in the first place." A certain meme may pop into your head upon reading that. That way of thinking is prevalent and sums up the supposed justification for why Blue Mage could only work as a limited job.

A lot of us are simply trying to encourage people to open their eyes. Expand their perspective and realize that not everything is black and white. Once that happens, people will be more accepting of proposed solutions which we'll be seeing more of once Blue Mage goes live.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

They could have made BLU be a fleshed out job. They could have also made it traditional BLU with having to learn spells from monsters. Which would have made it new and different, while being traditional BLU and also still being a proper job so that MMO fans could still like it.

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FFXIV's regular battle content is designed in a very specific way, in a very tight and closed space. What you are suggesting lies outside of these boundaries, and it's not hard to see what kind of issues and flaws would arise.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Oh wait, it can't be used in actual content...

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Limited Jobs have their own content, goals and incentives to be played. Just like every class/job category in this game.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

A lot of us are simply trying to encourage people to open their eyes. Expand their perspective and realize that not everything is black and white. Once that happens, people will be more accepting of proposed solutions which we'll be seeing more of once Blue Mage goes live.

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That's exactly what a lot of people on the pro-BLU side are doing as well. Trust me, I acknowledge the flaws with BLU, I'm just scepticle of the solutions proposed by the community. It's not as simple as allowing it to do content that it isn't designed for, and I'm worried that the anti-BLU crowd is being short sighted in what it wants. If the anti-BLU crowd is who the Devs listen to, I worry that one of two things will happen.

1) BLU is forced into content that it isn't designed for, causing job imbalance and a ripple effect that will affect many aspects of the game.
2) Far more likely, the "boycott" will give the Devs the impression that BLU was a failure and not worth investing more resources into.

This is all before we have even got a chance to play the job. It could well be that next week we find that BLU has been designed in a way that would not suit party content in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

FFXIV's regular battle content is designed in a very specific way, in a very tight and closed space. What you are suggesting lies outside of these boundaries, and it's not hard to see what kind of issues and flaws would arise.

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Such as?

I mean, what are you referring to as "Regular battle content"?

Since, having BLU level up with overworld content (Which is what they're designed for currently with their boost to overworld experience) has little impact on most people's concept of "Regular battle content" which would be dungeons...

If we talk about BLU in dungeons (If we allow them to access DF) then, the main concern of everyone who promotes the trashing of the job, is "What if BLU player has not learned spells X, Y, Z which we for some reason consider "Critically important" for use in faceroll DF content?". To which, it's easy enough to implement Job Quests that surmount to "Go learn spells X, Y, Z", still keeping the core of the class (The learning of spells manually), but also enticing players to go and pick up the "Critically important" spells.

I put emphasis on "Critically important", because as right now, people playing normal jobs often fail to actually use core skills for their class and DF content still can still be completed just fine. Like, as I've posted in another thread:

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Like I've seen TONS of SAM who don't EVER get their Shifu/Jinpu buffs up, let alone do the combos to get Sen to perform Iaijutsu. Or NIN that never use a single Mudra and thus Ninjutsu, BRD that never use songs, DRG that never use Blood of the Dragon or any jump skills, BLM that just spam Fire 1 until they OOM and then wait for AF to drop before using Blizzard 1 and regaining mana...

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This happens even in max level content that's also gated behind item level requirements. So, you can forgive my scepticism that a few BLU players who might not be running the "Most optimal" skills is somehow cause for concern to the point where "Regular Battle Content" is broken beyond belief and requires BLU players to be completely removed from accessing it. I mean, by that definition, we should also outright ban SAM, NIN, BRD, DRG, BLM and any other class that people don't use optimally from using DF or accessing raids, because "People might not use skills"

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Limited Jobs have their own content, goals and incentives to be played. Just like every class/job category in this game.

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And your point being?

People are here complaining about people complaining because "We haven't even played the job yet".

But when the initial complaints are about the fact that cannot be used in the majority of the games content (Thus relegating it to a really minor amount of usage, akin to that of a Gold Saucer side activity) then having been able to play the job or not has no bearing on the actual basis of the complaints.

Now, IF the complaints where to do with the power level or the fun of actually using the job, then yes, there would be merit in trying to undermine arguments by highlighting the lack of hands on experience with the job.

Just a minor nitpick, I've been seeing the term "pro-BLU" and "anti-BLU" from a few people now, I believe that this is misleading, the argument is really about "pro-Blue Mage as a limited job" and "anti-Blue Mage as a limited job." Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but there wouldn't be such an outcry from the "anti" crowd if they didn't have a love of Blue Mage to begin with, whereas anti-Blue Mage makes it sound like they're against the job.