Character Creation Has A Race Problem

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

They won't. Proving my earlier point, everyone decided to post in this thread again the moment it became about race war stuff. It's clear that's all anyone wants to talk about. It's definitely pointless now. People don't want to actually talk about the subject.

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People are only posting about the "race war stuff" to try and make the point that the exclusion of certain facial features or hairstyles has nothing to do with overt racism or insensitivity to certain ethnicities. Yet others continually keep trying to spin it in that direction.

This thread is a deep mine of the highest quality of Ala Mhigan rock salt.

Somebody is really triggered in this thread.

Passive-aggressively insinuating others as being less intelligent...yeesh, I wonder who that might be!

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

So you agree representation can be improved. But you don't agree that racism is behind it?

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It's almost like they aren't mutually exclusive. Shocking, I know.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Well, I'm confused then. What problems do you judge to be actual racial issues, and more importantly, what evidence do you have to prove this lack of prevalence?

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Ones we can actually prove have a racist undertone not simply infer it out of bias assumptions. Case in point, I merely cited Beyoncé as an example yet somehow because there are more successful white artists, it can only be unintentional racism. Okay. Provide that evidence. The burden is on you to prove racism is holding people back, not on me debunk your assumptions. If we go by your logic, shall we call the Hip Hop and R&S genres racist as they've historically been predominantly black? See, that's the issue when you try and force an "ism" on everything. It inevitably applies both ways. Of course, few people doing that ever want to acknowledge it.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I guess I'm the Odd Man Out since I don't feel the need to see myself in a game. If I have the option then I usually purposefully choose characters that are different from me. I'm me 99.95% of the day, in that other 0.05% I don't want to have to think about anything related to being me and lose myself in someone else's story.

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My main is a max height Au Ra man. I’m a five foot nothing girl lol. Like I said, having or not having the option to look like myself is not a deal breaker for me, but it’s a nice addition for those that would, for one reason or another, want to look like me.



@thread
I don’t really see the point going in circles about supposed racism cause it’s how we get 40+ page threads going “I don’t like your tone” “Well I don’t like your tone”. It was totally possible to keep this thread on track but lordy some folks cannot help themselves. I hope OP (or anyone really) adds the suggestions for the hairstyles/skin tones to other threads or start a new one. It’s customization guys. At the end of the day it’s just more customization.

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

Don't you see they CLEARLY just substituted darker skin on characters with traditionally caucasian features, which is NOT ENOUGH and stands as evidence of the DISCRIMINATION that PoC have to endure every day!

:rolleyes: Is it any wonder people didn't take this thread seriously?

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I've never seen anyone IRL look like those characters. They are drawn in the typical anime style which does NOT follow realistic depictions of people IRL. IRL people don't have one line of a mouth and basically a black dot on their face signifying a nose, but that is the style of anime, they don't have well defined noses or lips, and it rarely deviates. It is an art style.

We need more options, faces, hair, etc, yep, no problem there, but the idea that certain facial feature shapes are linked solely to a be all and one all representation of a race is absurd and using it as an argument for that is just pointless.

We just need more options because the current creator doesn't have enough variety in general, not because of some nonsense that they are discriminating by not having the exact shapes everyone wants.

Facial features such as nose shape, eye shape, and lip shape are not 100% linked to your race. The world is too diverse to think in such narrow-minded black and white terms.

Just because someone has a certain shape of eye, a certain shape of nose, a certain shape of lips then they must 100% be or represent a certain race all because of that? Nope.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

It's almost like they aren't mutually exclusive. Shocking, I know.

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Then provide an explanation.

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vague

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Oh, no, no, no. I know your beloved tactic of foisting all responsibility for evidence onto the opposing party and using it to prove yourself right despite the absence of anything even slightly resembling evidence on your part. Where are these statistics you mentioned that prove just how not prevalent racism is? You can't cite that without anything to back it up. How can you prove to me that racism is not behind poor representation?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Very nice ad hominem. :) You’re losing an argument, so you turn to attacking your opponent instead?

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See it how you will. "Losing." You do really have an unhealthy obsession with this, don't you?

You've completely misunderstood my original point and you've been repeating it back at me despite my telling you otherwise. Referencing something and representing something are not the same thing. You accuse me of "prolonging" things but you've held onto this inane tangent for several pages, to what end, I don't even know.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Then provide an explanation.

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Poor representation can come from simple statistical leanings. A primarily white neighborhood will have a primarily white school, for instance. That doesn't mean the school is unintentional racist, but it also means representation could improve. Likewise, the same logic applies to media. A video game only having heterosexual relationship options isn't necessarily spouting off some homophobic agenda. At the same time, non-traditional relationships could be better represented.

Put simply. If you can prove discrimination. I will fight that battle with you. I will not, however, fight a battle based on blind assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Oh, no, no, no. I know your beloved tactic of foisting all responsibility for evidence onto the opposing party and using it to prove yourself right despite the absence of anything even slightly resembling evidence on your part. Where are these statistics you mentioned that prove just how not prevalent racism is? You can't cite that without anything to back it up. How can you prove to me that racism is not behind poor representation?

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Because if you make an accusation, the onus is on you prove it. In fact, let's glance back to your WHM is dead thread. You had literally no evidence except your own opinion, and argued down everyone else despite them going so far as to take screenshots. So I know your "beloved tactic" too. You have an opinion—one often entirely unsubstantiated—then expect others to prove it wrong, or deny the proof they provide.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

See it how you will. "Losing." You do really have an unhealthy obsession with this, don't you?

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:rolleyes:

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You've completely misunderstood my original point and you've been repeating it back at me despite my telling you otherwise. Referencing something and representing something are not the same thing. You accuse me of "prolonging" things but you've held onto this inane tangent for several pages, to what end, I don't even know.

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None of my posts have accused you of “prolonging” anything. I suggest you go back and read them. But now that you mention it, you don’t have to keep replying to me. You didn’t even have to reply to my first point. But you do you, boo. :)