All things considered though, WoW has also had the cash shop for a far longer period of time than this game has even existed (including 1.0). There's still no trace of such destruction at the hands of the cash shop in sight yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
Not gonna deny the possibility of it happening, but when you take into account how long its been standing since it was first introduced, its been multiple MMORPG lifetimes worth of time going. I don't think FFXIV has a whole lot to worry about as far as gating players from meaningful content worthy of being called "P2W" because of cash shops.
The point is that it doesn't always happen. It can, there's no denying that, but no point in fear mongering when there's no real evidence of it yet.
Now that is a sensible argument on the matter. +1Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
Mog Station is overpriced.
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11-04-2016, 09:47 AMWelsper59
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11-04-2016, 09:57 AMJandorFor the sake of argument, lets say I'm wrong, let's say it doesn't happen to all of them. It is undeniable that it happens to most, why take the risk?Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
FFXI hasn't got a cash shop as far as I'm aware, and it still exists, and it's older than WoW. It still even receives updates. Basically living proof that FF MMO's without cash shops can last pretty much indefinitely.
We know most MMOs with cash shops turn to rubbish eventually.
We know a FF MMO can exist without a cash shop for over a decade.
We know that this particular game turns a big profit even before cash shop is considered.
What exactly is the reason supposed to be for accepting it in this game? -
11-04-2016, 10:07 AMWelsper59XI is a bit of an anomally, not in the cash shop sense, but in the fact that SE decided to keep it sub based. I'd imagine the amount of sub profits far outweighs upkeep since the time subs started severely dropping many years ago. Archaic game tech probably doesn't demand much money to be thrown at it. Probably don't see a point to a cash shop in a game with a low sub base when they don't spend much on new content and upkeep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
I think the point to argue is what examples are there for your "most" statement? As far as sub games go, most, if not all sub games that fell to their cash shop did so after they went F2P, which was also a result of lower subs. SWTOR and Aion are examples of that. Rift too, I think. -
11-04-2016, 10:43 AMLunafreyaI agree with everything said here. There's nothing wrong with wanting the cash shop exclusives to be obtained in game through other means and such. I do think it is ridiculously overpriced for these far eastern dresses. I won't be purchasing one until it is on sale for at least 3 dollars. No, I don't understand why the rarity of the item needed that price either. Let's put things into perspective here... one dress is somehow more expensive than a whole scion set with a hairstyle to boot. I even thought the scion prices were ridiculous but this is just worse. I won't condemn anyone for spending money but I would love an alternate solution to this. I keep making the argument I can get 3 premium costumes elsewhere for 7 dollars overall...... because it is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
Edit: And yes, there are both sides of the anti and pro cash shop people that are rude. We will never get along. -
11-04-2016, 11:40 AMZojhaThe upkeep and maintenance is actually fairly cheap in general - that's what allows Freemium games to have millions of freeloaders and still remain very profitable and even the distribution of "actual" free games that are kept alive on donations alone. That said, XI is kept alive by the fact that it's still profitable - just less than it used to be. I wager as a result, update frequency and volume has gone down - companies tend to disinvest when a cash cow slowly transits to a poor dog and search for new stars, because that's what the BCG matrix the decisionmakers got taught in their studies or some workshop tells them to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
FFXIV would also still be profitable with less players and that's without the cash shop considered - in fact, SE never expected ARR to become as popular as it did. As such, it's a far stretch to assume the cash shop serves to cover any costs - it's there to make bonus profit off whales (Who, often, don't even care whether something is overpriced - they don't need to think twice about such petty sums), which you can then either invest in other projects, re-invest into running project or give to your shareholders. Of those options, re-investment is good for the people buying from the shop, investment in other projects is good for the people that want the new games and distribution makes it more lucrative for investors. From the company point of view, it is good for as long as it turns a net profit, which means losses from lost sub caused by cash shop needs to be lower than profit through the cash shop.
/DevilsAdvocate
And technically, even a pay-to-win cash shop isn't bad as long as it turns a net profit
/DevilsAdvocateoff
If you boycott it, SE would disinvest in it, meaning: They'd create less items for it. That's natural - if nobody bought the stuff you develop for it, there's no point in developing more for it. It also means they have less overall budget to spend on their projects or investors. So EU servers would still not exist, Stormblood would only get the HW budget again and Yoshi would lose 5 more hours of sleep a week. Basically. -
11-04-2016, 04:32 PMSpiritMuseThis is how I feel. I like the new "Far Eastern" stuff, but not enough to spend €13,50 aka more than a month's worth of subscription.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunafreya
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11-04-2016, 04:54 PMTaleraRistain
The reason the Mogstation items can be considered overpriced is because you aren't getting enough value for what you pay. In other games with successful cash shops, you can pay 5 to 10 dollars (or possibly as high as 25 for something like a mount/minion in Wow) but that is a one-time thing. That item is available to all current and future characters. Champions Online has a very successful cash shop that offers mostly what we would consider glamour items where it is one purchase that is account wide.
The other issue is the inconsistency in pricing. This outfit with this many pieces can be one price but this outfit with less pieces can be 3 or 4 times more. Mounts are just a little more than some expensive outfits, but they are account wide whereas the outfits are limited to one character.
It very much gives the feeling of being nickle and dimed and looks especially bad when other games show that a cash shop doesn't have to function that way. -
11-04-2016, 10:39 PMClover_BlakeBut it hasn't happened, and I for one don't have reasons to think it will. So, are you simply complaining about a hypothetical case that's not applicable to the current cs? Doesn't that in turn mean that the current cs is fine?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
From the way you word it, it sounds like you're trying to make the FFXIV cs look like the most expensive and unreasonable cs, compared to "other F2P and B2P games". That's simply your personal experience, coupled with very convenient wording.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
Let's talk about my personal experience with "other F2P and B2P games", then.
I've played Tera, B&S, Black Desert Online, ArcheAge and Mabinogi:Heroes (Vindictus). I've used some of their cs because I love buying costumes, and all of the games I've listed have WAY more expensive and pushy cs. Of course, all of their costumes work for a single character, which is the norm.
I'm used to spend 15€ on each B&S costume (which are non dyeable, by the way), and B&S is on the "cheaper" side considering that BDO and Vindictus can charge around 30€ for one. So when I recently bought the Korean dress in FFXIV, you can imagine that my thoughts when I saw 13,50€ weren't exactly "what's this ripoff!!" *laughs*. This is, in fact, the cheapest cs I've personally seen.
Let's also consider that both the Chinese dress and the Korean dress are the most expensive costumes we have in the cs, I guess because they had to level the price with those from their original servers. Every other costume for sale? Not only cheaper, but also the vast majority of them could be obtained in-game first, for free (reason why I've barely had to touch the cs during all this time; such a pushy cs this is!). That leaves a cs with very, very few exclusive costumes, and even fewer ones that cost more than the rest.
tl;dr: it's not accurate to say that the FFXIV cs is very expensive compared with every other game. It's not accurate to say that the cs is p2w. It's not accurate to say that because of the cs we're getting less items in-game.
So it basically comes down to people agreeing or not agreeing to pay for this or that item. You don't have to buy them if you don't like them as much as the people who do, just like you don't need to try your best to convince everyone else that said items are evil incarnate. -
11-04-2016, 10:47 PMWatachyPaying my sub like everyone, why should i not be abble to wear a super cool dress because im a student that don't ahve a lot of money ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clover_Blake
Paying a sub should be enough to have access to all the content of the game. -
11-04-2016, 10:51 PMClover_BlakeItems created for the cs are extra merchandise, which wouldn't have been ingame to start with if they weren't for sale. It's like saying that you're entitled to own the lore book and every single FFXIV related plushie just because you pay your monthly fee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watachy
Monthly fee gives you access to the game and all its updates (which aren't exactly few); it doesn't give you access to every other merchandise, which includes the cs.