We need more ways to make gold in this game.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

Most of that stuff is gatherable. Except for 3-4 ingredients all recipes between 1-29 are gatherable, craftable or farmable and can make you money by selling to vendors.

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You're logic is laughable. I even outlined a low level item, where the farmed materials sell back to the vendor for more than the completed item does. You have yet to provide any sort of factual basis to your claims.

Brass Ring
Sells for 21 gil

• x1 Fire Shard
• x1 Wind Shard
• x1 Brass Ingot
• x1 Wind Shard
• x2 Copper Ore
• x1 Zinc Ore
• x1 Ragstone Whetstone
• x1 Wind Shard
• x2 Ragstone

This is a level 20 crafted item. How can you possibly sit there and tell me that farming this item, crafting it, and selling it to a vendor is turning a profit for you @21 gil? Even if you are somehow magically turning a 21 gil profit, because you somehow avoid all repair costs... it would take you selling 5715 of these to a vendor to make up for one 24 man raid coming out with 5k in repair costs per player. I would also like to point out that 5k is tremendously undershooting the cost of repair, considering I only have 3 pieces of level 50 gear and am already hitting that cost.

This doesn't even consider the fact that the materials needed to make this item are currently worth more on the MW than the finished item to players or vendors. This simple fact illustrates that there is not enough gil being generated for players to pay crafters for their time/effort (finished product mark-up does not exist). This in and of itself is a glaring issue that further illustrates the issues with the game's economy.

Time to car pool people. Invite 7 other people to your party before you teleport. 1 person pays, everyone WINS except the guy who paid.

Don't be that guy who doesn't have the aetheryte.

I agree with the OP. There is a gulf that widens the further you go between what you earn in gil and what you have to pay out for repairs and teleport/airship costs.

Okay since no one responded to my original comment, I guess I'll chime back in.

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Originally Posted by pepero

The amount of gil being removed from the server is more than what is being introduced.

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For the sake of argument, let's say that this assumption (because that's what it is without any sort of evidence or study) is true. Not picking on you pepero, you're just the most recent as of when I started typing this.

Is the cause because players are spending too much gil on repair/tele/MW, or is it because they're not making enough to compensate for what they spend? In either case, it's not the game's fault (read: not "bad design" as some have said) that money is being lost, it's the players' fault for spending too much gil. People want to talk about simple economics, this is it: don't spend more than you make.

Many/most of you have real life jobs. You spend money on necessities and frivolities. Do you then complain to your bosses or the government that you don't have enough money left over? Do you say the world is broken because you don't make enough money? No, you spend less or you're constantly broke, and you find ways to make more money while spending less of it.

There is no evidence to suggest that there is anything wrong with the economy or the way it's setup, or to believe that it's not working as intended, however, it will take time for players (and prices) to adjust to it. The game just came out. If everyone, on all servers, were broke already then I'd say you have cause for alarm.

The players need to adjust to the game, not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by AzuraSin

stuff

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I think people would have a problem farming for 3 hours just so they could do what they want for an hour.

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Originally Posted by AzuraSin

this is it: don't spend more than you make.

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EVERYTHING in the game COSTS GIL. People have said over and over that if this issue is not fixed then they would have to figure out how much can they play based on how much they can make daily. Your gear gets damaged for pretty much anything, it's not a penalty for death, so by just playing the game, you're paying gil. Are you seriously thinking that people will stay a long time in a game that they can't play because they don't have the gil to do it?

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Exaggerated hyperbole without evidence to back it up

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Care to try again?

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Originally Posted by AzuraSin

There is no evidence to suggest that there is anything wrong with the economy or the way it's setup **SNIP** If everyone, on all servers, were broke already then I'd say you have cause for alarm.

The players need to adjust to the game, not the other way around.

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There are two major problems with your argument.

1) You are coming from a legacy server which has a huge stock pile of legacy Gil, so the problems will not be as evident to your server as quickly as they are to non-legacy.

2) Non legacy server players are already broke. Last night 2 24 man guilds on Leviathan had to stop raiding because they ran out of Gil to do more attempts.

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Originally Posted by AzuraSin

and you find ways to make more money while spending less of it.

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That is what this entire thread is about. Without taking money from another player there is no way to "make more money" than we spend on simple repairs and travel costs.

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Originally Posted by AzuraSin

Care to try again?

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Where is this magical 5k gil coming from to pay for my hour of wiping to hard mode encounters? Vaer and I may have had a stupid argument a few posts back but he is spot on with his statement.

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Originally Posted by AzuraSin

For the sake of argument, let's say that this assumption (because that's what it is without any sort of evidence or study) is true.

.....

Many/most of you have real life jobs. You spend money on necessities and frivolities.

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When it's happening to me first hand, actually losing money for a dungeon run, I no longer call that an "assumption". You may need to assume, but I do not. For me it's an observation, and one based on personal experience.

As for your "frivolities", if I want to continue to progress in the game, I need to run dungeons. When the cost to do that is greater than the reward for doing it, it's broken. You can try to turn this into some "real world" example, but I'm not going to pay a subscription fee to avoid playing the game so I can "spend less" on the necessity of repairing my gear.

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Originally Posted by AzuraSin

snip

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No one responded to me either, so I'll chime in again as well. Your real world analogy doesn't work because in the real world, you are generally paid more as you work more. A person working an 8 hour day is probably going to make double what the guy working a 4 hour day is making. In FF14, however, the amount of gil you can make after the one-time quests are exhausted drops off significantly since the majority of the gil you earn is frontloaded to the first hour when you complete your 6 leves. After that initial gil, the amount you can make doing anything drops significantly and often is a loss-producing activity due to repairs resulting from combat, gathering and/or crafting.

The issue is this isn't too big a problem for players with minimal playtime. Someone who plays 5-10 hours a week can go pretty far with 21,000 gil every week, but someone who plays 5-10 hours per day is going to be broke very quickly unless they play the AH.