Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

You have more worries than target cap on Salted Earth if one DRK can hit 48 players simultaneously in a single button press. Though I guess that might actually be the norm if a target cap is made because then everyone can just throw bodies to block a capture point until it succeeds.

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I didn't mean that DRKs are regularly hitting every enemy player. Just that it's kind of absurd that that is theoretically possible.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

The unfortunate truth is that, although Dark Knights can be irksome, nerfing them would only pave the way for another strategy to rise as the new meta. While we may not foresee what that replacement might be, it's an inevitable evolution of the game.

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lol @ dark knight weighing in about why dark knights should not be nerfed Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

lol @ dark knight weighing in about why dark knights should not be nerfed Thanks.

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Well, she is telling the truth. Every expansion has that class or 2 where it's the most dominant and the most popular to use. It just happens to be DRK right now after the devs removed Summoner's Rift from their game (lol).

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

Well, she is telling the truth. Every expansion has that class or 2 where it's the most dominant and the most popular to use. It just happens to be DRK right now after the devs removed Summoner's Rift from their game (lol).

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So it means they need to keep on working on it. "oh we tried to fix problematic pvp metas a few times and it didn't work, I guess it's never going to work" is a super lazy attitude.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

So it means they need to keep on working on it. "oh we tried to fix problematic pvp metas a few times and it didn't work, I guess it's never going to work" is a super lazy attitude.

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I don't think anyone is defending DRK's current conditions at all. I think there are a few others that are trying to point out what's going to occur after the needed nerf which the response would be to keep working on it. That's it. :o

I can’t be the only one that finds people using “well they attacked us first” as an excuse for the two last place teams continuing to fight hilarious

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Meta evolution is healthy, IMO, although it typically requires changes to jobs. The problem is, unless there is a fundamental redesign that diminishes the extreme power of LB stacking, well-organized premades will exploit the fact and make the mode miserable for everyone else.

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The reality is, all that knee cap busting nerfs will end up doing is make people not want to play pvp.
You can make my job borderline unplayable so that you'll see my job less, but what you end up doing is just make less and less people want to pvp.
Many people won't dynamically be changing jobs based on a changing meta.
Besides, aren't you already happy that i'm no longer having fun in FL? I can't do anything on my own anymore. My job does more damage to itself than to you.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

The reality is, all that knee cap busting nerfs will end up doing is make people not want to play pvp.
You can make my job borderline unplayable so that you'll see my job less, but what you end up doing is just make less and less people want to pvp.
Many people won't dynamically be changing jobs based on a changing meta.
Besides, aren't you already happy that i'm no longer having fun in FL? I can't do anything on my own anymore. My job does more damage to itself than to you.

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The current situation is already making people not want to PvP, almost regardless of their jobs. Not making changes purely to avoid upsetting the existing DRK players, whilst continuing to negatively affect play for everyone else, doesn't make much sense to me.

Yes, even if DRK voke is changed, causing it to no longer carry the same weight within teams as it does currently, something new will rise in it's place. It's ever evolving, hence why the situation needs to be monitored and changes regularly made where necessary. That doesn't mean we should take the attitude of "the systems broken now and if I try to fix it it'll break again in future, so let's just leave it as it is"
And the changes to DRK that were made were a huge waste of time, in my opinion, and only shows how little attention is paid to FLs in the decision making. The voke is the main issue, yet that has been left unchanged.

Would I say that DRK is the main problem? It's by no means the only problem, as there are other factors at play. Though changing the DRK voke in some way would likely ease current issues a considerable amount. And, as the wider community problem which exists is never going to change, making changes to classes such as DRK is really the only solution we have.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

The reality is, all that knee cap busting nerfs will end up doing is make people not want to play pvp.
You can make my job borderline unplayable so that you'll see my job less, but what you end up doing is just make less and less people want to pvp.
Many people won't dynamically be changing jobs based on a changing meta.
Besides, aren't you already happy that i'm no longer having fun in FL? I can't do anything on my own anymore. My job does more damage to itself than to you.

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The unhappiness of others doesn't make me happy, no.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

Would I say that DRK is the main problem? It's by no means the only problem, as there are other factors at play. Though changing the DRK voke in some way would likely ease current issues a considerable amount. And, as the wider community problem which exists is never going to change, making changes to classes such as DRK is really the only solution we have.

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I agree meta balancing in FL is most likely to be adjusted by nerfing a perceived overpowered job, but it's pretty lazy. Ideally balancing is produced through counterplay. I do have sympathy for solo players who enjoy DRK because its skillset is restrictive. Really only works as the spear-tip for a premade.

As I've mentioned before, I think a large part of the balancing difficulty stems from the fact many jobs play very differently solo than in a coordinated light party.