What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You're assuming she is cognizant of what goes on in other timelines divergent to the one she exists in and understands all the branching timeways. The way I see it, the Hydealyn of the 8UC timeline for all we know made the exact same choices as our Hydealyn up to the point their WoL died because to them they were in the only timeline. Or how would you explain 8UC timleine Hydealyn knowing they are 8UC timeline Hydealyn?

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Why does she need to be cognisant of it for it to count as an example of failure? Also, the WoL, who filled her in, is aware of it.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Why are you ignoring the method by which the Ascians are using to bring back their dead? That completely differentiates it from what happened to us, and only enhances the fact that it's not their desire to bring back their dead that we have a problem with.

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She's the one who put the Ascians in that position, after fracturing every life on the planet and eliminating her kind to the point she even refers to herself as the "last of my kind", alongside "supreme deity". Besides, they're not talking about the Ascians but the sacrifices planned before the sundering but after the planet was revitalised. Sacrifices which not a single source is specific on (beyond references like "new life" after Zodiark stimulated regrowth of the planet), and which her group does not dispute the ethics of, suggesting they may well be something closer to the entities created in Elpis. Her group's issue is they think the ancients should "move on" to avoid an eventual doom, but as far as we can tell, she never really informs her people as to the why of it beyond vague musings about suffering.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You're assuming she is cognizant of what goes on in other timelines divergent to the one she exists in and understands all the branching timeways. The way I see it, the Hydealyn of the 8UC timeline for all we know made the exact same choices as our Hydealyn up to the point their WoL died because to them they were in the only timeline. Or how would you explain 8UC timleine Hydealyn knowing they are 8UC timeline Hydealyn?

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I'm not assuming anything. She wouldn't know, thus holding off on intervening with the First. We know now that she had the knowledge and the power reserves to nip the Flood of Light in the bud had she wanted. This is the problem with her retaining memories of the future and supposedly wanting to get back to the WoL, it makes every choice she made along the way morally questionable.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I'm not assuming anything. She wouldn't know, thus holding off on intervening with the First. We know now that she had the knowledge and the power reserves to nip the Flood of Light in the bud had she wanted. This is the problem with her retaining memories of the future and supposedly wanting to get back to the WoL, it makes every choice she made along the way morally questionable.

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"even more shady if you consider she was purposely holding off on saving the First because it needed to be rejoined in one timeline and come close to it in another." this assumes the 8UC Hydealyn knew to condemn her First so that another timeline's Hydealyn could save theirs. The more likely answer is both assumed their First would be saved based on the events they heard and moved in that regards.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Why does she need to be cognisant of it for it to count as an example of failure? Also, the WoL, who filled her in, is aware of it.

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How else would you back up the claim that she held back saving the First so she could damn one First in one timeline and spare another in a different timeline, without her somehow knowing which timeline she was existing in to even make such a choice?

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Originally Posted by Velnora

It overwhelms the lack of aether. Even then, it still makes no sense, as the final days were still occuring during their time. And it still should be happening now.

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What will is controlling the inert Dynamis post Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Oh, so it's only subjective when "the story is bad", but it's objective when "the story is good". Let's face it, you guys also spin your own perspective-based opinion as a fact.

This community is a hypocrite. People bashed SB so much and saying it's good is enough to get you get laughed at, and yet now there are people who dislike ShB/EW, it's all "no, the story is good, you're just haters/it's just your opinion!!1!". People who dare riticize the story are treated like criminal.

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I’m not sure who you are grinding that axe for, but I think you’d be better served bringing it up with the person you have a problem with and not random people.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I'm not assuming anything. She wouldn't know, thus holding off on intervening with the First. We know now that she had the knowledge and the power reserves to nip the Flood of Light in the bud had she wanted.

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https://i.imgur.com/ytUO9pv.jpg

She very clearly didn’t have that power.

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Originally Posted by linayar

What problems?

How so?

Not judging a book by its cover doesn't mean all books have to be treated the same. On the contrary, it means even if they get different treatment, you can still appreciate the book that lacks the "appreciation" that you think it deserves. Equality has nothing to do with whether or not you should judge a book by its cover.

I wasn't talking about the title. Venat was Azem too, and we are not Venat.

On the other hand, just because a portion of the community has a problem with the story doesn't mean everyone else should either.

And there is indeed such a thing as looking too deep into something that you can view something harmless to be an issue.

Eh, personally, I am not adamant that no one should die. I believe that's the writer's call to make, and they have made their choice. I do not agree that anyone has to die for the story to be "real," but I have no problem with anyone dying.

Why are you ignoring the method by which the Ascians are using to bring back their dead? That completely differentiates it from what happened to us, and only enhances the fact that it's not their desire to bring back their dead that we have a problem with.

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In this situation it does, because they state time and time again they’re essentially equal. Neither is good nor bad yet one is painted in a much better light than the other and is given far better treatment. As for the problems, it’s like i said, that plot point goes against the theme. The theme of this expansion and even since the start of the game has been loss,suffering,dealing with loss etc.It’s even in the main song of this expansion. Loss and fire. We see it throughout the expansions of characters having to deal with the death of close ones. Yet, this expansion in Ultima Thule, instead of accepting they’re gone, the scions are brought back from the dead. The very thing people have bashed the ascians/ancients for attempting to do for their people. A last side note on the hydaelyn and zodiark thing, i do find it a bit humorous how people say we don’t need both sides to be equal, yada yada, and yes i guarantee if it was the other way around and it was Hydaelyn who was shafted and portrayed not as good as Zodiark people would be raising pitchforks. In the end though my last comment still stands, where are the ascian minions and zodiark minion? How have we not gotten an Emet minion yet, but Venat of all people gets one for genociding the world.

So, I guess the Aether is still stagnating now that Zodiark is gone.... that seemed to happen independently of the whole Meteon story.... I wonder what that will mean.

In fact- I am not sure why the sky isn't still red...did I miss the explanation for that?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

the scions are brought back from the dead. .

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I don't want to nitpicking anything but they were not dead to begin with so we did not bring them back from the dead. they became the elements( like Estinien became the wind and so on) that paid the way forward for us. but they would eventually die if nothing would be done in time.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

So, I guess the Aether is still stagnating now that Zodiark is gone.... that seemed to happen independently of the whole Meteon story.... I wonder what that will mean.

In fact- I am not sure why the sky isn't still red...did I miss the explanation for that?

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The Star's aether current stagnation was still a result of the Song of Oblivion. Summoning Zodiark basically smeared sunscreen [extra aether] over the planet to stop it from getting sunburned.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

The Star's aether current stagnation was still a result of the Song of Oblivion. Summoning Zodiark basically smeared sunscreen [extra aether] over the planet to stop it from getting sunburned.

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Ahhh, I didn't catch that cause/effect. I thought the Aether stagnation was the window the song could get through, but that it was happening naturally.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Ahhh, I didn't catch that cause/effect. I thought the Aether stagnation was the window the song could get through, but that it was happening naturally.

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Hermes gives an explaination after the group fills him in on the Final Days. Essentially because the Song was projected to the Star from outer space its effects were first felt in the locations where the currents were naturally thinnest then just deteriorated things from there.